Best Source for Birds?

[CandoAviary]

An equally unfair argument would be to say that the children born of the slaves brought over from Africa aren't as bad as the Africans brought over themselves, because they were born into slavery so they don't "know any better." Therefore, I'm not supporting the actual slave trade, just supporting slavery.

What I got lost on that one. But no... I don't support slavery. Oh well, I really don't have any more comments to make on wild caught birds and the importation there of and the desire to buy domestic captive breed birds. So maybe this discussion can get some new insights from someone else.

[franny]

...I can't sit here and say it's not right for people to own Grens and Violet Ears and all these other imports when I own birds - which I wouldn't even have if it wasn't for past imports.

It doesn't seem fair for there to be a gray area here.. if you don't support the wild caught trade, then really, you shouldn't be supporting bird ownership either.

Well said Nixity.

I sometimes feel some guilt for keeping my pet birds, too. (Yet I don't, for having a pet indoor cat. Your reference to the "degree of separation" certainly explains that.) But while I can feel a bit sad about supporting the catching of wild birds, by keeping my cage bred birds as pets... I will still keep them.

It's a tough call. We can't all travel the world to see these birds in the wild, so if we want to enjoy them at all, that is our only way to see them. But I agree with Candace, that when possible, we buy from captive bred stock - not just because we will have less stressed birds..but in a way it is supporting those who successfully bred their wild caught stock - which is what it's all about anyway, isn't it?

[CandoAviary]

when possible, we buy from captive bred stock - not just because we will have less stressed birds..but in a way it is supporting those who successfully bred their wild caught stock - which is what it's all about anyway, isn't it?

I think so, I at least try and support the domestic breeders, especially if they have been able to get wildcaughts to reproduce reliably. That is a great accomplishment. My statement that started this got a little construed... I think wildcaught would be fine if the quarentine is decent and they go to knowledgable breeders willing to give them large avairies and the proper live food etc.Even have a special wildcaught liscense and inspection to meet the criteria of the birds. I just don't think they should be sold to the brokers that pedal them like the latest fad for people to take home and kill ( I mean put in a cage and say... oh look at what I got...isn't it pretty). And this is exactly what happens. Proof this is true?? where are all the 1000's of imported grens, VE, strawberries, etc. that have been imported over the last 30 years ? Were they housed properly and domestically bred?? No. They were sold to people that could not propergate them or worse did not provide for them and killed them....and they are gone. Sure now there are people trying to gather and breed some of the species and I wish them the very best with their efforts and would gladly help them with there indeavers if they ever asked. I just wouldn't arrange myself to import wild caught birds. That is what I meant about not personally supporting it. Meaning me personnaly importing/buying wild caught birds. Just like I don't support pet abandonment but once they are abandoned I do my best to care, feed, help the homeless dog shelters..... I support the shelters...not the abandonment. It really isn't a grey area to me...
One causes the problem (importers and buyers of the wild caught) the others (me) try to help the wild caught once they are here. Many times they are very stressed, depressed,old and unhealthy by the time they make it to a good shelter (caring, knowledgable birdkeeper)
You can support bird ownership without new wild imports. There are enough breeders in this country to supply everyone with a captive bred pet bird. The problem is that it may not be the species that the consumers want.

Franny, many of these species can be shipped from other breeders in other countries that captive breed them. It is just really costly and many times have to go from one country to another before being shipped to this country. So it is hard even on the captive bred birds. I was looking into getting some shipped from a breeder who captive bred but the quarentine was so long that I worried even with robust, healthy captive raised birds it would just be too much stress on them. Not to mention the $700.00 for the quarentine
I don't feel guilty for keeping my birds either. All are captive bred and most have been bred right here by me and they know nothing else. Most have it pretty good and they would never make it in the wild anyway..... they have become way too domesticated and dependent on the seed dish

Well I guess I did have more to say... Or to at least clarify what I was trying to say in the first place.

[CandoAviary]

Bird business runs on reputations, relationships, and word of mouth. There are good and bad, honest and dishonest people in every business, so buyers should always do their research before making decisions and the best and the most ideal method is to meet individual(s) in person.

Most definately. If a breeder does not allow you to come and see his stock and how they are cared for, and to ask the questions you may have beware.... I am one of the few in my area that will let someone come and visit. I do require an appointment time as I am a busy lady but I couldn't imagine sending off my carefully raise " fids" to someone that had no idea how to care for them. I also send then home with enough seed mix, mineral mix, etc, to feed until the birds adapt to their new enviroment and then mixed gradullay to the new diet. Some buyers are old hands at bird care and seek me out because we are kindred spirits but many buyers are very new to the hobby and have much to learn. This is where an ongoing relationship is such a good thing. There will always be support and a mentor available to them. Of course like psilocybin mentioned, personality. It helps to click with the breeder. There are some buyers that are not a good match for me to work with... and I am sure vice versa. In these cases it is best to find another source for your birds. I have turned buyers away due to there uncaring attitude or constant poor mouthing to get a bird cheaper. I have also stopped supplying a broker due to lack of licensing and tax papers. These people will usually bad mouth you while the other type will sing you praises.... that is why it is important for you to meet then and judge them on your own merrits.

[sierranomad]

Thanks Candace and psilocybin6.

I'll see if I can make an appointment with the breeder. I've had limited email contact with him, and he hasn't impressed me as being particularly helpful, but it could be a misinterpretation. So, as I said, I'll see if I can make an appointment with him.

Wish you were in my area Candace. It sounds to me like your views are very similar to mine. If I ever got into breeding birds my #1 priority would be to find good homes for them. It seems like it would be difficult to maintain that priority when it came down to actually wanting/needing to make a sell. For that reason, I doubt that I will ever get into breeding...I just don't trust that most people are responsible/caring enough to properly take care of pets that need daily care.