Thoughts on a Custom Aviary & Finches and Butterflies?

[Domenic]

Hi guys. I am going to be moving soon and I have the pleasure of having my hand in designing the house I am going to be living in. As you can imagine, this means I will make not only a spacious, but also a strategically placed aviary for my birds right in the entrance of my house. Right now the plans are sketchy and still just thoughts in my mind, but I want to make an entirely glass enclosure complete with a fountain and shallow goldfish pond, lots of real flowers and a very large artificial tree to go in the center. I'm very excited about this, but I also have a few questions as you can imagine. For one, my mom loves butterflies and I have been searching for places to order live butterflies online and then to put them in the aviary. I plan on having quite a few, but do you think they would stress the finches out, or would the finches attack them. I sort of figured that the finches would occasionally kill a few, but they are relatively cheap and I would always just buy more. Other than that, I really can't imagine any problems the butterflies would cause other than making the finches think they are truly in the wild .

The aviary I am planning on building will be very inspired by this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNfbRSIg ... re=related

In the video just skip to 3:00 and you will see the aviary/terrarium.

What are your guys' thoughts on it? And what about adding butterflies to an aviary?

[funtimes09]

I have seen this movie and this was my favorite part in it, the aviary. It was so beautiful! As for the butterflies could you buy species that in the wild have markings that label them as 'uneatable'? The one that comes to mine is the monarch but also the viceroy I believe because it has the same markings at the monarch but is non-toxic. I am sure there are others as well. As for the fish wouldn't the constant bird poop contaminate the water? Or would the fish waste be harmful to the birds? Other than that I think it would be a great investment and I am sure the birds and you would love it.

[Ursula]

Wow, I love that setup!

I would like to have a little pond in my aviary too and actually thought about it, but one reason is that unfortunately my aviary isn't quite that big. And the second reason is that I also can't figure out what would be the best way to change the water. I can siphone out water of my fishtanks, but how do you do that with a pond that's on the floor? That would be a heck of a lot of work to scoop it out and clean it that way. I also think the birds' droppings wouldn't be good for the fish.

How long do these butterflies live? Wouldn't you have to breed some constantly and restock it?

[cindy]

This reminds me of a house my parents looked to buy in Miami. All the bedrooms on the guest side overlooked a court yard with a garden complete with a tree and bird feeders in the center, it was very relaxing. The house with the garden and tree in it.

If you are interested in butterflies, my husband is an Entomologist. There are several companies he recommended to me when I had my Kindergarten class start a butterfly garden. I can see if he can recommend non toxic types for you. Some of the caterpillars are toxic so it would be best to research to make sure the finches don't try to make a snack of them if you plan on having the butterflies cycle in the aviary.

Another option would be is to set up a little area separate from the aviary where you can hang the pupa (chrysalis), allow the butterfly to emerge then release it into the avairy after the wings dry. A wire cage with branches and a food supply would be needed. There are several companies that can supply the eggs, larve, pupa and adults.

They do make special filters for indoor and outdoor ponds, along with really nice waterfalls that trickle. To keep the birds from fouling the water just keep whatever they will perch in or on slightly back from the edge. I would check with a vet to see if you have to treat the water so it is ok for the birds to drink (something safe enough for the fish to)

What a very peaceful setting you will have. Keep us posted.

[Finch Fry]

Just some friendly advice here...

DO NOT DO NOT DO NOT DO NOT mix waxbills and butterflies.

Waxbills are insectivores. Goodbye butterflies. In fact, I was on vacation this year and was in Key West for a day or so and went to visit a the Key West Butterfly Conservatory. They had finches in the butterfly room so I struck up a conversation and spent some time talking with the care takers and they said they made the mistake of introducing orange cheecks, goldbreasts, and lavenders (i think) to the place. The butterfly count dropped down almost half inside of a week. The waxbills were just annihilating them. They quickly removed the waxbills and sold them. They only keep Australian and S. American finches like tanagers, purple grenadiers and gouldians.

Also, they had a nice big pond with a dozen koi in the conservatory with the birds free flying. There were streams feeding in and out of it all over the place. So pond with birds could work. My suggestion would be to not have any place a bird could rest directly above the water. No perching or roosting areas. You would need a filter for sure on the water which would need regular cleaning is my guess.

[Domenic]

Just some friendly advice here...

DO NOT DO NOT DO NOT DO NOT mix waxbills and butterflies.

Waxbills are insectivores. Goodbye butterflies. In fact, I was on vacation this year and was in Key West for a day or so and went to visit a the Key West Butterfly Conservatory. They had finches in the butterfly room so I struck up a conversation and spent some time talking with the care takers and they said they made the mistake of introducing orange cheecks, goldbreasts, and lavenders (i think) to the place. The butterfly count dropped down almost half inside of a week. The waxbills were just annihilating them. They quickly removed the waxbills and sold them. They only keep Australian and S. American finches like tanagers, purple grenadiers and gouldians.

Also, they had a nice big pond with a dozen koi in the conservatory with the birds free flying. There were streams feeding in and out of it all over the place. So pond with birds could work. My suggestion would be to not have any place a bird could rest directly above the water. No perching or roosting areas. You would need a filter for sure on the water which would need regular cleaning is my guess.

I believe purple grenadiers are African. Thanks for the info, I already have a waxbill or two though. Really, the only waxbills I plan on having are two orange cheeks, so the population can't take much of a beating from only two. I can always try, and if it doesn't work out I'll just discontinue the butterflies.

As for the pond I am still unsure on whether or not I will be putting fish in. I have had ponds before and they get disgusting quickly, I'm thinking of just having an empty pond so the water doesn't need to be filtered all the time.

[Domenic]

If you are interested in butterflies, my husband is an Entomologist. There are several companies he recommended to me when I had my Kindergarten class start a butterfly garden. I can see if he can recommend non toxic types for you. Some of the caterpillars are toxic so it would be best to research to make sure the finches don't try to make a snack of them if you plan on having the butterflies cycle in the aviary.

Another option would be is to set up a little area separate from the aviary where you can hang the pupa (chrysalis), allow the butterfly to emerge then release it into the avairy after the wings dry. A wire cage with branches and a food supply would be needed. There are several companies that can supply the eggs, larve, pupa and adults.

I would love if your husband could tell me some nontoxic types as well as the companies you used to buy them from. I'm having a very difficult time finding them because most are monarchs that are for releasing at weddings, so they charge almost 10 $$ each for them. That's ridiculous in my eyes. I would love to raise them from larve, I'm not sure on how to raise them from eggs though. I never planned on putting caterpillars in the aviary for many reasons, toxicity, they will destroy all the plants in it, the birds will most likely eat all of them, etc. The only stage of the butterfly I will add to the aviary is adult and theres a small chance I will add the chrysalis to the aviary to the butterflies emerge by themselves.

Once again, if you could tell me the companies where I could purchase the eggs or larve or even the adults I would be extremely grateful. Thanks for your help!

[cindy]

Hi..I have 2 educational sites, it is geared as a learning tool for school children but the information is good. They tell you how to hang the pupa. I would do this in a separate cage outside of the aviary then move the butterflies to the aviary when the wings are completely unfurled and dry, they will color out at they dry and the blood flow through the wings. Butterflies help this along by opening and closing their wings.

Two of the easiest to purchase in a larger quanity of 100 pupa are the Monarch and the Painted Ladies. I believe the monarchs have a bitter taste to them so some birds leave them alone. I will check on the toxin info about the larve with my husband and get back with you.

* www.thebutterflysite.com

* www.butterflyschool.org

The following one is were you can purchase them.

*Shady Oak Butterfly Farm: http://www.butterfliesetc.com/buy-butterfly-chrysalises

[Domenic]

Thanks so much Cindy. The links were very helpful. The only problem is with the Butterfly farm that actually sells the butterflies. Most of their butterflies can't be shipped to my state and some can't be shipped out of Florida. Is there a reason for this? Perhaps I could find a seller located in a different state that would be able to ship the butterflies to me. I do want a large variety to keep your interest when your watching them.

[cindy]

I know from having my bug expert in the house that certain insects are not allowed shipped into the area because it may feed or prey on particular plants or insects that are important to the eco system within that country or state.

You are in Nevada, what I would do is contact the Deptartment of Agriculture in your area, You may have a subdivision in your county that can help you. You can ask what is permitted in your state and what is/is not allowed to be shipped in. That is just to be on the safe side. Once you find out then search for a company that can get you what you are looking for. Bear in mind the fancier and more exotic the butterfly the more expensive the pupa are.

If you are looking for eggs to grow out they are usually easily shipped and you would have to prepare plants for the larve and adults to nurish themselves with.

I will try to find out some more information for you as far as what is allowed in and out of your state.

This is a really beautiful idea you have for your new home, I hope you get to have your dream come true

[CandoAviary]

Maybe collect catterpillars .......
I have a passion flower vine that covers the pergola. Gulf frittilaries fly across the gulf every year to breed in my yard. They lay thier eggs on this host plant. The eggs hatch and the catterpillars consume the vine and grow rapidly. They pupate then emerge into these beauties.

[CandoAviary]

As far as the fish pond. I have one of those too. The bird poop will not be a problem for the fish if done properly.
You need lots of plants, submerged water plants, algaes, and bog plants. These will use render the poop harmless. A good filtration system is key also. We use magna canister filters and a submerged pond filter with bio balls. We also have an airconditioning unit on our house that is cooled by our well. Some of the warmed well water is piped into some spitting herons and frogs and add fresh water to the ponds every time the air conditioner cycles. Lately that is about every 30 minutes for at least 5 minutes. the overflow seep to a planter of papyrus abou 3 foot in diameter that is set in a gravel filled hole. The bog plants love the wet area and then it slowly seeps underground into the lagoon. We only have to periodically trim the plants, remove unwanted algae and fallen pine needles. I will post pics soon.... I need to take some as I cannot find any at the moment.

[Domenic]

Thanks a lot Candace. Those butterflies are stunning. Honestly, I was considering just taking the butterflies from a garden and putting them into the aviary and then allowing them to reproduce, at which point I would take the eggs out and then allow them to hatch and coccoon away from hungry finches. After they emerged from the chrysalis I would just reintroduce themt to the aviary. As for the pond, I think I am most concerned with the maintenance of it because ponds can lead to molding and what not. So the pond is still 50/50, though I definitely would like it for the aesthetics.

Cindy- thanks again, you've been a big help. The only thing is that my next house will be in Juneau, Alaska, which is quite a bit different from Nevada, and a lot stricter in regards to exotic animals and things. I will call the Department of Agriculture to inquire about it. I really do hope to have a large variety of butterflies in the aviary, same as with the finches I buy. You don't want to have a single species, you want enough colors to capture people's attention.

I also realize that with the different species of butterfly and finch, I am going to have a lot of work cut out for me as far accomodating them all. Some finches prefer to feed on the floor, some like to feed up high. Some like to nest in the low grasses, some like to get as high as they can. I just hope my little aviary will have enough room to bring in all the different types of plants and things that each species is most comfortable with. Obviously with species like Zebra's, you could throw them in a bathroom with some seed and they would be happy. But more exotic types like pintailed parrots or purple grenadiers (which I will most definitely acquire ) have much more specific requirements. I'm not too informed about butterflies, but I was hoping that most do fine with your basic types of flowers. I don't plan on having flowers that are more difficult to care for then the butterflies themselves. I do know that most butterflies are very picky about where they lay their eggs, I am hoping they aren't as picky about where the feed.

[cindy]

Candace, the pictures are really beautiful. I think we are to far south (I am right about Clearwater) for the butterflies in the quanity that you see them up there. We have a few varities fluttering through the yard. We seemed to have more Monarchs in Ft Myers than here.

Domenic, your plans sound great. I can't wait to see the finished aviary. Keep us posted. You may want to set up an additional greenhouse for all those butterflies and their plants/flowers. Best wishes.