Mice!!!

mike · Post by **mike** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:33 am

Hoji wrote: If traps really become necessary, I will use one of immediate types, glue traps are simply too cruel. If I am willing to kill the mice --- then I should also face up to seeing them in that condition (as I do whenever my cat, Nikko, brings us a 'gift'.) I still shudder when I think of the poor babies starving to death in the walls - and then they will smell for a long time too (gag!!!) This is the main reason why I haven't used the live traps.
---Hoji

How are the mice starving in the live trap?

L in Ontario · Post by **L in Ontario** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:35 am

mike wrote:
Hoji wrote: If traps really become necessary, I will use one of immediate types, glue traps are simply too cruel. If I am willing to kill the mice --- then I should also face up to seeing them in that condition (as I do whenever my cat, Nikko, brings us a 'gift'.) I still shudder when I think of the poor babies starving to death in the walls - and then they will smell for a long time too (gag!!!) This is the main reason why I haven't used the live traps.
---Hoji
How are the mice starving in the live trap?

The babies (in the walls) would die when the parent(s) don't return after being caught in the live traps.

Hoji · Post by **Hoji** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:42 am

Actually, what I meant is that if you kill, trap, or otherwise remove the adults then their nursing and weaning babies will starve to death, in the nests, in the walls. (And then you get odors and insects, etc.)
Glue traps are slow, starvation, yes, but the terror and struggle to get free are especially inhumane.
---Hoji

mike · Post by **mike** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:02 am

Hoji wrote:Glue traps are slow, starvation, yes, but the terror and struggle to get free are especially inhumane.
---Hoji

Of all the inhumanities we commit against nature, glue traps are right up there.

When I was a kid I worked at a fast food place. They would occasionally open the back door. One day I found a sparrow glued to the trap, peeping. So I grabbed a knife and ... cut it free. I'm sure it wouldn't have lasted much longer after that but I put it outside anyway.

To this day, whenever I see a glue trap, I cover it with paper, sand, or whatever is available.

dfcauley · Post by **dfcauley** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:08 am

I agree with you totally. It is so refreshing to see people who really care about animals.... even nasty little mice. They have tried to put those glue traps down in my classroom at school.

I take them up immediately....(after they are gone)

. Then if I have a mouse in my room, I bring a real trap and put it where kids cannot get to it. I am not against killing the mice, but it needs to be done fast and quick.

CandoAviary · Post by **CandoAviary** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:50 am

I think people attach their emotions to these critters. Mice will canabolize their young or their neighbors. They just don't have the moral values that we bestow upon them.
That being said I did have a pet silky mouse for a while (they don't live long) I also let my daughter have them as pets along with gerbils, hamsters, rabbits, etc.
I also raised mice for snake food

(yes, snakes need to be provided for too) I probably raised 1000 for the pet atore I worked for at the time.

I see it no different in this than eating a nice, juicy steak right off the barbie....
Or a Yummy turkey for Thanksgiving Day Dinner.... for which I am thankful for.
Thier is no sin in killing, just murder. The difference being malice, hate, greed, etc.

L in Ontario · Post by **L in Ontario** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:59 am

CandoAviary wrote:I think people attach their emotions to these critters. Mice will canabolize their young or their neighbors. They just don't have the moral values that we bestow upon them.
That being said I did have a pet silky mouse for a while (they don't live long) I also let my daughter have them as pets along with gerbils, hamsters, rabbits, etc.
I also raised mice for snake food (yes, snakes need to be provided for too) I probably raised 1000 for the pet atore I worked for at the time.
I see it no different in this than eating a nice, juicy steak right off the barbie....
Or a Yummy turkey for Thanksgiving Day Dinner.... for which I am thankful for.
Thier is no sin in killing, just murder. The difference being malice, hate, greed, etc.

Well said!

Hoji · Post by **Hoji** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:18 pm

Wow, I didn't mean to start an ethics dialogue!
but it is cool!

It is, for me, not about whether any animal is more or less moral (or cute, or smart, or . . . ) it is about the value of life. Any life.
In the competition for life and health, we do choose, no doubt. But, for me, killing something 'cause it seems dangerous or worthless, or whatever, should only be undertaken if there REALLY isn't any OTHER choice.
Animal pain is real pain and no less important then mine or my birds'!

CandoAviary · Post by **CandoAviary** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:47 pm

I remove many animals from my yard with live traps, coons, opposums. I use to take them to the woods were I own properties but when I heard that the people across the lake were overrun with coons I started taking them to the animal control station, along with the cats that roam the neighborhood. Found out that they release the natural critters back into the wild

To keep squirrels from getting into some of our rental attics we place moth balls.... they cannot stand the smell. Maybe you could try this...if you and the birds can handle the smell of moth balls. Rodents hate the smell

Also at the grooming/boarding shop we found that those electric devices were detected by the dogs. I had several dogs go straight to the device and paw at it. So I donot believe they are good to use around dogs and cats.

dfcauley · Post by **dfcauley** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:55 pm

I have also seen people feed their finches to snakes.....

I suppose some would consider there to be no difference.

Hoji · Post by **Hoji** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:21 pm

I have just the little sonic repellers --- my cat (Nikko, again) and dogs (Daphne and Emily) don't notice them at all. They sit and sleep right in the room and pay no attention to them. One is on the floor where all three could get to it, one is on a shelf that the cat can easily reach, and the third is in the bathroom where my cat's food is. (Nikko eats in the bathroom 'cause there is a gate to keep the dogs out, otherwise they would eat Nikko's food). Perhaps the large ones might cause an issue, but they are not supposed to.

The mothball idea is brilliant, I will try them in with the steelwool! Thanx!

franny · Post by **franny** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:54 pm

CandoAviary wrote:...Thier is no sin in killing, just murder. The difference being malice, hate, greed, etc.

Unfortunately for the mouse, dead is dead no matter your motive. I once found a rat, slowly dieing a horrible death from rat poison. After seeing that, I couldn't ever poison one. And believe me, I have no love for rats! But any living thing has value. And I try to not ever kill something unless I have a really good reason. And unless I was protecting myself from being bitten, a mouse has as much right to live as I do. If I don't intend to eat it, why would I kill it, just for being a mouse?

Walking home from work yesterday, I heard a rustling in the dried leaves along the curb separating me from the road, and saw a rat frantically running just ahead of me. He was afraid to jump the curb because of the traffic, and afraid to cross the sidewalk in front of me, to get to the creek along side me. Poor thing. I stopped walking for a moment, and he made a brave dash to the safety of the creek shore in front of me. Yes, I know rats in the city can carry desease, but this guy meant me no harm, and I certainly would have hated to have driven him into traffic to a certain death.

I think the mothballs are the best idea. A deterrant (sp?) is the way to go. Let the cat eat them, since he was meant to eat what he could catch. Or let the mice have a chance to run... which they usually will do once they know there are multiple cats around.

Hoji · Post by **Hoji** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:21 pm

My cat is well fed, he does not eat the mice he kills. I understand this is very common in house cats.
Cats, as much as I love them, are not so sweet, really, they basically play with a mouse to death. Shiver.

queenb · Post by **queenb** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:21 pm

My outdoor aviary has a concrete pad and I installed a 18" band of galvanized metal (bought on a roll) along the base of the exterior perimeter. I'm sure plexiglass would work too, just so happens my aviary is curved.

Good luck on eradicating the existing squatters.

franny · Post by **franny** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:41 pm

Hoji wrote:My cat is well fed, he does not eat the mice he kills. I understand this is very common in house cats.
Cats, as much as I love them, are not so sweet, really, they basically play with a mouse to death. Shiver.

They are not really "playing". They are honing their skill, for the next time it's needed. That's one of the reasons that cats do become feral and survive, when a lost pet dog will often starve...it's lost the hunting instinct.
But the cat can't help it's nature - it's instinctively acting this way. I'd still rather let the cat get rid of the mice, than do it myself. At least the cat is acting naturally, but it's against my nature to kill something.