NEVER SHIP USPS!

[JohnBoy]

I refuse to argue this no win debate any longer. Wish you would let the subject rest. I just want to say again that I have never had birds get lost nor DOA. They have always arrived on time or earlier. I have no other option and it works for me.

[Domenic]

Funny...I called them to see if I could ship John's birds I got him from my branch, I told them they are finches. They took my informtion and called the Tampa main office, got the ok, called me back. I got to the post office, they pulled a special slip for live birds, I wrote finches....it went. It was approved by the main Tampa office to ship out so perhaps it has to be ok'd by a supervisor.

The only way to really know for sure since their printed word is either not updated or they make exceptions is to call the main office and find out what is what. All I know is it is done often from the branch I use and John uses.

It sounds to me like USPS needs to update their regulations. The source everyone is quoting from may be out of date. If you called and asked and were given the ok, obviously the employees looked up the rules on shipping finches, then I think it is fine.

[debbie276]

It actually was all updated January 2008 here is the link to Hazardous, Restricted and Perishable Mail if you want to look around, http://pe.usps.gov/text/pub52/pub52c5_006.htm#ep183869

It really depends on the post master on each end, some look the other way some don't.

I have heard a few stories of people getting the birds taken away and fines imposed and others that mail the birds without a problem.
Luck of the draw

[cindy]

I never concealed the fact that I was shipping finches when I called the Post Office or when I went to fill out the papers. When they called back they said "yes we can ship finches".

The finches spent about 30 minutes on the road in the front seat of the truck to the Tampa airport, put on a FedX plane and flown to New Oleans and then driven the post office where John lives. When people think of the birds going USPS they sometimes are under the impression they are driven to their location, but they are flown for most of it. At least they were in this situation.

[Sally]

I have the luxury of having DFW airport just one hour away from me, so I have had birds come in on Delta, and I can be right at the cargo counter when they come in, sign a few papers, and I am on my way home with them.

I have read of a few people who have tried to ship USPS and were turned down at their local P.O. So it seems that it is a regulation that is not totally enforced, perhaps in many cases because the employees simply don't care or choose to look the other way.

For those who don't live near an airport (and many of the smaller cities lost all airline service when the economy went south), USPS may be the only option to get species that usually can't be found locally.

I can't honestly say what I would do if I didn't have DFW near me.

[cindy]

I found this on

http://www.hm-e.net/po.htm

It is based on approval to have the birds shipped.

Instructions for USPS Postmasters
Mailing Live Animals

Any office shipping live animals must call the District Expedited Services Office (ESO), which coordinates and clears such shipments. The ESO will tell you where to drop off your "live" shipment and notify the accepting office.

The availability of a drop-off site may vary depending on
transportation or the retail site's ability to handle large volumes. The ESO tries to make acceptance points for live animal shipments widely available and ensure protection of the lives while in the postal system.

With the September 25, 2006 inception of live animal mail
transport on the FedEx Network, the number of retail outlets available for live animal acceptance increased significantly. Transportation on commercial carriers continues to be available.

Special Handling Service is for unusual items that need to be handled specially through the mail – like live poultry and bees. For these items, Special Handling is required. Your package will receive preferential handling to the extent that it’s practical in dispatch and transportation.

For more FedEx network details:
http://www.usps.com/send/waystosendmail ... ervice.htm

The site also has a vendor that supplies boxes and foams for shipping birds and eggs

[debbie276]

Not sure what any of that has to do with USPS not allowing finches and others to be mailed but even on the Horizon site they say:
9.3.4 Adult Fowl
[4-12-07] Disease-free adult fowl may be mailed domestically when shipped under applicable law in accordance with 1.7. Adult chickens, turkeys, guinea fowl, doves, pigeons, pheasants, partridges, and quail as well as ducks, geese, and swans are mailable ... And that is what they are selling their boxes for.

Not sure why you are arguing about the regulations. If it works for you to mail your finches then continue to do so. The only reason I quoted the regulations and rules was so others reading this thread were aware that it is illegal to ship finches, canaries, cockatiels, parakeets and parrots through USPS.

The choice is yours as well as the risk

[Sally]

I think the confusion comes from the use of the word birds, which to most of us includes finches, but not necessarily to USPS. I called the main USPS 800 number, finally got a human being, and I asked him if the regulations had changed and I could now ship finches. He replied that yes, I can ship live animals. I asked if that included finches, and I had to spell it out for him. Then he replied that he didn't know, I'd have to call my local post office.

I didn't bother with my local post office, we are talking small town here, I think if I could fit an elephant in a flat rate box, it would be accepted. And the regulations do spell out that live animals are accepted, but when you search further, finches are listed as not acceptable. So it is a personal choice, but as debbie said, people need to be able to make an informed choice. If your P.O. approves it, great, but that may not be the case for everyone.

Even with the airlines, when I have picked up a shipment, the agents have commented that they don't often see small shipments like that, it is usually much bigger boxes with LOTS of birds, so they are always very curious about my little birds. And you should see the reaction I get from TSA when bringing birds on the plane--this last time, they had to go over their small wire travel cages and tiny water tubes with an explosive-detecting wipe--I could hardly contain myself.

[nixity]

And you should see the reaction I get from TSA when bringing birds on the plane--this last time, they had to go over their small wire travel cages and tiny water tubes with an explosive-detecting wipe--I could hardly contain myself.

LOL!!!

So they actually allowed you to bring the birds on board? I always wondered if they would allow that or force you to put them in cargo..

Sometimes even the airlines can be ridiculous especially when it comes to the shipping container.
Some airlines will accept one thing, and another won't.
I almost didn't get Coby last year because the airline was originally refusing to accept Winnie's shipping crate.
They finally took it, but the shipment almost didn't happen.

[Sally]

Some do allow you to bring them on board, but not all airlines do. The container has to go under the seat in front of you.

The last shipment I got, a friend sent some birds on Delta, they were in a wire cage, and when he got to Cargo, they told him they couldn't go like that. He just had time to run to Wal-mart, buy a small cat carrier, and then the wire cage just fit nicely inside.

I also read on another forum about someone who showed up at the airport and was denied bringing his finches on board because he had more than two! Of course, the regulations were written more with hookbills in mind, a small cage full of finches doesn't take up as much room as many hookbills.

The moral of the story is to allow plenty of time when you are dealing with the airlines, or TSA, and have a backup plan ready.

[Domenic]

You won't BELIEVE the craziness Alaska Airlines enforces. While they do allow pets on the plane, only two birds are allowed per container (in in the cabin) and only 5 people per cabin are permitted to bring animals on the plane. It doesn't sound crazy yet, but when I asked about taking animals in cargo I got an ENTIRELY different story. To bring any animal on the plane will cost you $100, no matter the size of the crate (except for the cabin where only crates small enough to fit under the seat are permitted). I only have 15-20 finches right now so I asked if I could put them all in a dog crate and take them on board via cargo. I was told that each bird in the crate must have at least an inch and a half of perching space, and only 4 parallel perches are allowed per crate, but the story was then changed to only 6 birds per crate no matter the size. I then spoke to another woman who told me that I was allowed to put as many finches in a crate as I wanted, so long as each finch was in it's own container inside of the crate. So if I could fit 12 individual containers inside of a crate, I was allowed to place a bird in each container and that would be fine. Obviously this would be much more unpleasant for each finch than just having them all use one giant crate, but these are the rules! Go figure.. That's why we've decided to drive the finches over the Canadian border to a ferry that will be taken to Juneau. It would probably cost me more money in transporting the finches than it would buying entirely new ones.

I hope Birdsexpress ships to Juneau!

[cindy]

Over night eggs to you to you in Alaska?????

PS I spoke with a rep and since the Post Office is now working with FedX air they relaxed the rules to include finches and canaries in the catergory of quails but have not changed the written rules. with Fedx involved the travel time is decreased to 1 to 3 days, drive time was like 5 days. Certain quail can go for 5 days without food, finches and canaries need to eat more often. So they do allow the smaller birds since FedX air cut the travel time down. However I did read somewhere that hookbills can't go USPS since they can chew their way out of the shipping box.

Shipping finches and canaries is based on approval from the post office and the main office.

[CandoAviary]

Not sure why you are arguing about the regulations. If it works for you to mail your finches then continue to do so. The only reason I quoted the regulations and rules was so others reading this thread were aware that it is illegal to ship finches, canaries, cockatiels, parakeets and parrots through USPS.

The choice is yours as well as the risk

Debbie, I too follow the laws. I would not ship via USPS as airlines are so easy, Have received birds flown in and they are wonderful and Legal
Florida Fish and Wilife notified me a year and a half ago and warned of an outbreak of Newcastles in Arizona and southern California. They advized me to not import any birds from this area. If I had not been following the law and had a current wildlife liscense, not only would I be illegal but I would not of been notified of this outbreak and may have made a very costly mistake to my flock and native birds here. They have these laws to protect the birds...not to give people a hard time.
Same with the shipping via mail, the laws are to protect not only the pet birds we have but the native birds in our area. Same reasons they won't allow some imports. I support this as it would be awful to wipe out our native birds by a desire for some foreign bird
Many people don't care what cost it is to the birds they are shipping, the native wild birds that it may infect, the healthy birds they already have in their care.... They just want what they want, when they want it...... and as convienantly as they can...and as cheap as they can get it to them
As far as the post offices... even if they know the policies and enforce regulations the employee may not know the difference between a finch and a quail. So it comes down to the honesty of the shipper. I would compare it to a cashier making a mistake in a change transaction and inadvertantly giving $20 too much back. Of course it would not be the store's policy to give every one an extra $20 in change but some cashier may not realize it and actually do it. Some people will say you made a mistake and give the $20 back, realizing that IT IS THE RIGHT thing to do, and then there are others that will just keep it and justify it as it was the cashiers mistake. Or I need the money more than the store or whatever. The whole time claiming to be righteous.
But one person's mistake does not mean one should take advantage of it. But as long as there is time and people, there will be right and wrong, good and evil. Too bad that the finches have to suffer in the process.

[CandoAviary]

The Fed Ex, UPS, and USPS may indeed relax the regulations in the future. They are hurting big time and in the red finacially.
Many Post offices have closed across this country as they could not afford to operate them. Many are now slated to be closed. They need to generate funds anyway they can to stay afloat.
The internet, email, online checkpaying, online catalogs, online banking, etc has really cut back on the actual physical mail the postal service handles...meaning less stamps = less funds. I am sure if the Fish and Wildlife offices in areas where shiping is "looked the other way" was notified... things may not be too good for those particular postal offices..... and others involved. They would be hit with fines on an already hurting budget.

[B CAMP]

When you ship by Delta is there a chance of spreading Newcastles or any disease ,or do they require a health inspection ?