NEVER SHIP USPS!

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JohnBoy
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Re: NEVER SHIP USPS!

Post by JohnBoy » Mon Mar 01, 2010 7:00 pm

YiPEE! I am proud to be a criminal. Candace give me a break from all your BS.
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Re: NEVER SHIP USPS!

Post by CandoAviary » Mon Mar 01, 2010 7:20 pm

What...my Brilliant Speculation :lol:

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Re: NEVER SHIP USPS!

Post by CandoAviary » Mon Mar 01, 2010 7:30 pm

B CAMP wrote:When you ship by Delta is there a chance of spreading Newcastles or any disease ,or do they require a health inspection ?
I have not had vet certificates shipped with the ones I received. So I am sure it could be spread that way. Some states make you have a health certificate...some don't :? That's one of those rulings that are decided by state goverment for the time being...but I won't be surprized to see it governed by the US congress.... they have all kinds of bills they are trying to pass through.
I was referring to the USPS regulations and what they state . Airline regulations are more about how many can be in a container and the design of the container.
I don't think there is a perfect way to protect from infectious diseases. Different sources apply different regulations based on thier own criteria. Can't explain how they come up with thier particular regulations though Bill.

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Re: NEVER SHIP USPS!

Post by B CAMP » Mon Mar 01, 2010 8:08 pm

Thanks :)
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Re: NEVER SHIP USPS!

Post by debbie276 » Mon Mar 01, 2010 8:56 pm

Cindy,
Your information says:
With the September 25, 2006 inception of live animal mail
transport on the FedEx Network, the number of retail outlets available for live animal acceptance increased significantly.

The regulations I have supplied links to are from a 2008 update which says they are not allowed, long after FedEx got involved.

I'm pretty sure ALL the goverment run post offices SHOULD be following the same rules and not leave it up to each post offices discretion. Wonder what would happen if you tried to file a claim. I bet you the book would come out then.
Debbie
long time breeder of lady gouldians:
Green
SF Pastel (SF Yellow)
Pastel (Yellow)
Blue
SF Pastel Blue (SF Yellow Blue)
Pastel Blue (Yellow Blue)

GREAT articles on avian lighting:
https://mickaboo.org/confluence/downloa ... ummary.pdf
http://www.naturallighting.com/cart/sto ... sc_page=56

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Re: NEVER SHIP USPS!

Post by B CAMP » Mon Mar 01, 2010 9:01 pm

Does it say Finches are illegal to ship any where in the rules ?
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Re: NEVER SHIP USPS!

Post by debbie276 » Mon Mar 01, 2010 9:23 pm

Publication 52 - Hazardous, Restricted, and Perishable Mail > 5 Perishable Matter > 52 Animals > 525 Nonmailable Live Animals

525 Nonmailable Live Animals
Nonmailable types of animals discovered in the mailstream must be reported to the PCSC in accordance with the instructions in POM 139.118. Additionally, the mailer and the post office of mailing must be notified to prevent future shipments from being incorrectly accepted for mailing.

525.1 Live Birds
Live birds, other than the type of day–old poultry specified in 526.31, are nonmailable. In addition, day–old poultry vaccinated with Newcastle disease (live virus) is nonmailable. The following are some examples of nonmailable birds:

Canaries.
Cockatiels.
Finches.
Parakeets.
Parrots.
Adult birds, except those specifically permitted under the conditions in DMM 601.9.3.4 and 601.9.3.5.
Be aware that the preceding list is not all–inclusive. Generally, all types of birds not listed in DMM 601.9 are nonmailable.
Debbie
long time breeder of lady gouldians:
Green
SF Pastel (SF Yellow)
Pastel (Yellow)
Blue
SF Pastel Blue (SF Yellow Blue)
Pastel Blue (Yellow Blue)

GREAT articles on avian lighting:
https://mickaboo.org/confluence/downloa ... ummary.pdf
http://www.naturallighting.com/cart/sto ... sc_page=56

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Re: NEVER SHIP USPS!

Post by JohnBoy » Mon Mar 01, 2010 10:29 pm

debbie276 wrote:Cindy,
Wonder what would happen if you tried to file a claim. I bet you the book would come out then.
It is stated that you cannot make a claim from the USPS if livestock is DOA. That is why the sender guarantees live delivery. They handle the claim and will replace the birds as long as they are not delayed or lost in transit. The PO itself is not responsible for livestock. In the case of non delivery they would refund the shipping cost.
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Re: NEVER SHIP USPS!

Post by CandoAviary » Tue Mar 02, 2010 2:20 am

JohnBoy wrote:
debbie276 wrote:Cindy,
Wonder what would happen if you tried to file a claim. I bet you the book would come out then.
It is stated that you cannot make a claim from the USPS if livestock is DOA. .
JohnBoy,
Where is IT stated that you cannot make a claim? It is not stated in the regulations of the USPS as they state that it is illegal. Are you referring to the seller who is sending these birds through the mail? Of course they would not want you to bring it to the USPS's attention. The fact that you want a claim on a dead, or lost finch package, could prove problematic for them since they are not legal to be shipped in the first place.
I understand that you, along with others have no problems shipping birds through the USPS. But surely you must understand that many breeders/buyers/shippers honor the regulations and simply have them supplied via legal transport, such as via airlines. I just don't get your argument and the degree to which you try to defend against the written USPS regulations. Anyone can access the very info that Debbie has provided by searching the USPS site and reading it for themselves.
I think it is wise for the forum members that look for information here on this site to be able to get legal and proper information. Many times the moderators will remove something that is copyrighted, yet posted, because it is not legal. With some posters continuing to encourage the shipping of finches via the USPS then I think it is good that members will speak up and give factual information. Nixity posted this same stuff last year and it has found it's way into the permanent sticky so hopefully most members will see the regulations.
Then if they still want to ship that way then at least they have been informed of the risk/danger involved to not only the finches but to themselves. This is not a personal attack on your receiving shipped birds.... that's your own business, that you just happen to like to share with the forum members :-$

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Re: NEVER SHIP USPS!

Post by JohnBoy » Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:16 am

Candace I have contacted 4 Post masters in 4 cities in my area. All 4 said it was OK to ship and receive finches. The Amite PO, The Metairie PO, The Kentwood PO and the New Orleans PO.
When I am told by a Post Master that is is OK, I assume it is OK whether it is or not. I have stated many times that receiving birds through the PO has worked fine for me. The birds always arrive in great condition. You have seen the birds first hand when I received them as if you remember I have always posted pics immediately after receiving the birds.
The first time I ordered birds through the PO I questioned about the possibility of the birds getting lost, delayed, DOA and was told that the only thing they would be responsible for is replacing the shipping cost if the package did not arrive in its time frame or was lost. Dealers who ship the birds guaranteed live delivery, not the PO.
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Re: NEVER SHIP USPS!

Post by cindy » Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:41 am

At 8:10 am this morning I called 1 800 ASK USPS to find out about shipping finches. They said it is unacceptable to ship finches, they are considered perrishable. They also said that it depends on the individual post office whether they get permission or not to do so. The birds would go overnight (fly via FedX/USPS)

So I called the PO I shipped from before and the lady told me they were allowed but they but a ban on it recently (possibly due to the cold and weather) and she would need to call Tampa to find out if it was allowable at this time. She called me back and said at this time they still have the ban in place (with weather changes, cold and snow they can't guarantee delivery time) but it could change soon and to call back and she would check again for me.

So basically they ban it during certain times and lift it during others, it is up to the individual Post Office/Main Office as to whether finches can be shipped or not.

This is what I stated earlier....except last time they allowed it. It is up to the individual post office as to whether ther ship/allow it or not. The woman told me to call back in a couple of weeks (warmer weather) and she will check for me again. This is the same lady I dealt with when I got permission to ship John's Red Heads late November 2009. They went overnight by plane. The only difference is they were taken to the plane in a USPS vehicle not me, housed in a warm secure area in New Orleans main USPS office and driven the next morning by USPS to John's post office.

I am really not sure why the debate over something we were told by Postal employees not once but several times. And yes the term "finches" was used and repeated several times during the conversations by both sides.

So bottom line..there is more than one way to get birds into your area, it is up to the individual whether to do this or not...so what is the problem? I'm not sure if we are debating an issue of fact or this is a moral debate. Whatever it is or not, it is not worth fighting about, it is what it is.

Face it you can tell people your opinion, educate them the way you think it should be but bottom line is "people will do what is right for them."

By the way: The word illegal never came up, the woman read it to me right from the book...it was said 'it is unacceptable', she then added "but" call the post office nearest you to see if they allow it at this time.
Last edited by cindy on Tue Mar 02, 2010 5:22 pm, edited 7 times in total.

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Re: NEVER SHIP USPS!

Post by cindy » Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:09 am

JohnBoy wrote:
debbie276 wrote:Cindy,
Wonder what would happen if you tried to file a claim. I bet you the book would come out then.
It is stated that you cannot make a claim from the USPS if livestock is DOA. That is why the sender guarantees live delivery. They handle the claim and will replace the birds as long as they are not delayed or lost in transit. The PO itself is not responsible for livestock. In the case of non delivery they would refund the shipping cost.

John is right, you can not file a claim, you can not insure the finches since it is considered perrishable but you can be refunded the cost of shipping for lost or late delivery.

Zebra, Gouldians, Java, CBM Shaft tail & Grasskeets


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Re: NEVER SHIP USPS!

Post by debbie276 » Wed Mar 03, 2010 9:38 am

Cindy,
Just to be clear, I never said illegal, I said unmailable per their regulations which you have confirmed.
At 8:10 am this morning I called 1 800 ASK USPS to find out about shipping finches. They said it is unacceptable to ship finches, they are considered perrishable.

They don't throw you in jail or ticket you. If someone along the lines of delivery follows the regulations written in publication 52 - Hazardous, Restricted, and Perishable Mail, you can be fined and/or have the birds taken away. Though it may be rare I have heard of it happening.
Debbie
long time breeder of lady gouldians:
Green
SF Pastel (SF Yellow)
Pastel (Yellow)
Blue
SF Pastel Blue (SF Yellow Blue)
Pastel Blue (Yellow Blue)

GREAT articles on avian lighting:
https://mickaboo.org/confluence/downloa ... ummary.pdf
http://www.naturallighting.com/cart/sto ... sc_page=56

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Re: NEVER SHIP USPS!

Post by cindy » Wed Mar 03, 2010 10:03 am

They will not fine you if the post office gives permission to mail them, it is cleared as finches and it is written as such...tell you what you do as you seem fit and I will do the same. Things with your post office in your area may be different than ours.

Like I previously said people have to do what is best for them, if that is the only way to get finches into their area then so be it, it is their choice and if the post office gives permission and signs off on it, the main office in their area gives permission for the finches to be "acceptable" or the ban lifted by the main office's approval due to weather conditions, paperwork filled out, I sign it, they sign it then how in the world does that justify a fine! I can see them taking your birds if you outright lied and sent infected fowl that does not show proof of vaccination for New Castle or other diseases.

I am completely up front and honest about the contents when I speak to two different people, one from the main office in Tampa and the other at the local post office, and then again in person and that person goes and gets a special form for me to sign and fill out they are both (Main and local offices) giving "permission that it is acceptable at the time", and the boxes are marked, paperwork is marked finches, the lady behind the counter signs it....to me it appears "acceptable" at that time. I go by what I am told at that very moment. Guess bans change depending on approval...so what is written is full of loop holes.

Debate over! On to other things like waiting for an egg that was shipped across country to hatch, and yes I told them it was an finch egg. :wink:
Last edited by cindy on Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: NEVER SHIP USPS!

Post by B CAMP » Wed Mar 03, 2010 10:21 am

Well said ,as soon as i can afford more finches i will order from Singing wings and have them USPS to me,i would have months ago but money has been tight
Bill

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