FINCHforum

Hello all, I'm new to finches, but not "new" to birds after having owned them off and all from a young age, and finally having owned a Severe Macaw for the last 4-5 years.

I recently "took the plunge" and switched hobbies from Saltwater Reef Aquariums to Finches.

After aquiring two male gouldian's, I took them to our Avian Vet (who runs a bird only practice, he is also an internationally known Avian Vet [and his appointments are on the cheap side either!]), and asked a few questions on issues that had me confused after doing all my research.

I wanted to share the summary of the information I was given, and see what the experianced breeders and owners here think ...

1) "Grit" - I was told that gravel/grit is not needed and not to offer it. Recent research suggests that the whole "birds need grit" thing came from necropsy's of birds that had feed on the ground and accidently injested small stones/gravel/etc.

2) Pellets should be the base diet for any bird, including finches. Fairly self explanitory, 80% of the birds diet is pellet's and 20% is supplemented fresh foods (egg food, fresh veggies, fresh fruits, insects, etc.etc.) However it seems many people don't like pellets, and I have yet to see a logical argument against them.

3) Cuttlebone has the wrong ratio's of Calcium and Phosperous. Instead supplement poweder and pellet diet instead of "salt licks"

So those are the three points I'd like to get some more feedback on...

BTW, the gouldians were treated for air sac mites (prevenative) and were given a clean bill of health by the vet! I now have an appointment for my newest additions (added only yesterday) two female Gouldian's and a pair of Society Finches!

The whole grit question has been back and forth. I personally give all the finches oystershell grit, not bird gravel, and they seem to enjoy it. I also add some charcoal (supposed to sweeten the digestive system--birdie Pepcid AC?) and crushed eggshells.

I recently switched to pellets and love them. I have to admit that I love the convenience of pellets for myself, too. No hulls flying everywhere. I also believe that you have to give them a variety of other things to balance their diet, plus mine do get seeds in the form of spray millet and sprouted seeds as treats.

I had not heard that about the cuttlebone. Some of my finches really work at the cuttlebone, others just perch on the top and poop all down the front of it. So what type of powder is your vet recommending instead of cuttlebone? I know some people supplement with calcium and quit using cuttlebone completely, but I haven't made that leap yet.

Look forward to hearing what else your vet has to say--always learning something new.

I don't feed my finches grit... I've heard bad things about it. My finches and budgies are on pellet diets also, and I supply fresh foods/egg food a couple times per week. All my finches have access to a cuttlebone. I use the mineral block/cuttlebone that is attached together and they use both.

I'm happy that some actual research is finally being done.

Talking to my mom (who used to breed finches before I was born) she makes it sound like "the dark ages" or something. Apparently we (as in humans) now know much more about birds than even 5 years ago!

It's unfortunate that the best books I can find on finches all seem to have been published around the early 90's. That makes some of them nearly 20 years old (out of date?).


Getting back on subject, I'll have to ask about oyster shells, and do some research about how much calcium is in them. What I was told is that cuttlebone has the wrong ratio of calcium in it. There is a website called VIN.com (Vet Information Network) and there is an artical about cuttlebones in there someplace, I'll have to see if I can find the link.

I'm very glad to see that some others are feeding pellets, my vet told me to start switching my finches over to pellet after I've owned them for one month. So it was only a few days ago that I was able to start adding some pellets to the cock gouldian's cage. I was kinda sneaky and put the pellets in dishes that hang high on the side of the cage, and the regular seed mix (with pellets added) was kept on the floor of the cage (these two were fed that way in the pet store, so I kept up the familier). Fortunatly for me, the two cock's took to eating the pellets right away! I was shocked based on what I've read on the internet before!

Now I just have about a month before I can swap my new birds to pellets.

I also offer spray millet, but only as a treat for now. I don't plan on trying to breed them until next year (a year from now). I just don't want to stress them out any more than I have too.

"The dark ages" is right!! I had finches 30 years ago, and there was very little information available. There were a few books. I still have my copy of "Finches and Soft-billed Birds" published in 1970. It is still good reference for species descriptions, native habitats, etc., but it refers to most finches as "delicate imports" whereas many species are being bred locally today. And diet and nutrition for most of our birds is drastically different now. Who ever heard of pellets in the 70's? I lived in Houston, TX, at the time, and if there were bird shows or fairs, I never heard about them. So I really appreciate sites like this, where we can share information.

Darn! VIN.com looks like it's a "Vet only" website, and you have to be a member to see the articals.

Oh, sorry, to answer the question as to what poweder my vet recommends:

He never actually came out and told me any brand names, I had to ask him about the various products that the local stores carry and I finally got him to say that this product "should work fine for you"..

It's called Prime by Hagen and says it's a "concentrated vitamin, mineral, and ammino acid supplement.

Acording to the directions it can be dosed in the water, but the prefered method is to mix it into soft foods that can absorb the powder (egg food, fresh greens, fruits, veggies, etc.) I would imagine it's very similar to something my youngest brother had to do with some lizards he owned. He would have to place crickets for the lizard in a bad and "shake'n'bake them with some kind of supplement powder.


Now I just need to ask the vet if there is enough Iodine in this mix or not, I've been reading up on these forums and noticed that durring the molt I may need to be adding more iodine to the diet...

Hi - my gouldians are moulting at the moment and one hen who raised lots of young ones at the start of the year is looking a bit bald! I have found buying powdered kelp from a health food store ( as opposed to an iodine supplement from a vetinary supplier ) to be an economical way of providing extra iodine. I sprinkle it on some eggfood each day.
Sue

How much kelp powder do you use on a daily basis per bird?

hi al
a lot of birds do not need grit to digest thier food as most birds dehusk the seed before its swallowed..waxbills especially do not need grit at all and can be extremely dangerous for them to be offered it ..to add a bit of science to this once the seed is swallowed it passes down the oesophagus and enters the glandular stomach known as the proventriculus,which poduces the digestive juices..the food then swells as it takes on digestive juices and enzymes before it goes into the gizzard, to be broken down into smaller particles and is then passed in to the intestines for absorbtion..any grit swallowed can build up in the ventriculus and waxbills cannot pass it quick enough ,as it takes less than 3 hours for a wxbill to empty its intestines so a build up of grit will prevent this and the more essntial food cannot be swallowed so the bird in effect starves to death so oyster shell, cuttlefish and egg shells are fine but no grit i know a lot of people confuse oyster shell as grit but it not the same stuff...this can be absorbed..but grit is rather like a dog that swallows stones

ken

Yes, I think a lot of people get confused on this topic.

When I speak of "grit" for instance, I'm always talking about INsoluable "stone/gravel/etc."

It's once thing to offer something like oystershell which will dissolve, and another thing to "feed your bird rocks".


I'm still wondering about the Kelp poweder / Liquid. What kind of dosage are we talking about for Gouldian's ?

I'm also wondering if the increased iodine levels would be harmful to other finch species, like society's?

My reason for asking is that I plan to keep 4 Gouldians and 2 Society's in a "mixed flight" avairy for the majority of the year. Then come breeding season I'll catch a pair and put them into breeding cages.

With the powdered kelp Iam just sprinkling about half a teaspoon or so on the days eggfood. I have 5 adults and about 12 juveniles in the aviary - it is only as an iodine supplememnt though - not multivitamin or replacing grit etc

I am not sure about iodine requirements for the other finches - i just know Gouldians have a high requirement for it. I will only be using the powder until the plumage returns to normal

I have a couple of waxbills in some of my gould cages, and they get whatever the goulds get. I give them iodine in their water once a week or so, and have kelp granules available in a dish for whenever they feel like picking at it.

hi hilary
you can of course if you think you are giving the wrong dose of iodine buy it in blocks for birds so they can take as much or as little as they like..i think they have minerals built into the blocks as well as iodine they are pink and very inexpensive they even come with there own tags to hang on the cage bars ..the old ones had to just lay on the floor and would get covered in droppings here is a link for you

http://www.pet-supply-store.co.uk/prodd ... ?prod=5632

ken