cordon blue finches with other species?? two males together?

[slinglings]

I don't know where to post this so if there is a better forum please move it ;)

I am new to finch keeping. In our aviary we have: 2 male cordon blue , M/F Gouldian, M/F Green singers, and 2 societies. Everyone seemed to be doing fine until yesterday. The two male cordon blues have seemed to be good friends. They have started singing/dancing and building a nest together. Occasionally they get in a squabble, chase each other a little, pull a few feathers. That I can handle. Today I saw one of the blue finches harass one of the society finches. Sweet innocent little societies

I was sold these two blues as a pair and was told all of these finches could get a long. I was concerned about the green male singer being a bully, and was told the blues were more passive. Not the case at all for my birds!

Is this breeding behavior? Should I take the nests away? Do I need to return the two blues? I don't have room for more birds so buying two female blues isn't an option. Having a second cage permanently isn't an option either.

[flrancho]

Breeding will generally make any bird more aggressive, and even though you have two males, they're still going through the "motions" (ie nest building), which could probably make them more territorial.

I'd remove the nests and see if the situation doesn't become better.

[DanteD716]

Yes, if they are nesting, that is probaly why they are chasing. Welcome to the forum, let us know what happens! Usually green singers are the bullies, so if you want the fighting to stop remove the nest, or societies. You could also move them to a cage to breed. They are both males? Have you thought of adding hens?

[Sally]

What is the cage size? Two Cordon Bleu males usually won't get along together, though sometimes if there is no hen present, they will tolerate each other. And any nesting activity in the cage, even if by a different species, can trigger aggressive/territorial behavior on the part of many finches.

Can you return one of the CB males and swap for a hen? Though if they were sold as a pair, you have to wonder if the seller would know if he had a hen.

Any time you have breeding activity in a community cage, you have to watch for territorial/aggressive issues. Birds that normally get along can become quite obnoxious when they think they need to defend a nest.

[slinglings]

Here is a link to the video that actually works!:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SFgBGIX ... e=youtu.be


The cage is 41 wide x 37 tall x 22 deep.

I removed the nests that the blue finches were most interested in. The Gouldians still have a nest and they seem to like having it, they are more shy and spend time there during the day even, and sleep there..so for now I'm leaving it. The blues seem to be quite attached to each other. They spend all their time together and sleep together, and for the most part they get along fine. The two males were all that the store had (for blues) so the only option is to keep them both or return them both, I think, right? I only have until Friday to return them, so I need to decide!

My daughter really wanted a 'blue bird' so I hate to return them. Thus far they are the most vocal. We got the greens because they are supposed to be good singers, but they really don't sing for us.

Does shortening the day help with breeding behavior? i.e., shorten the amount of time the lights are on?

[DanteD716]

The cage is small for that amount of birds, this may be the issue. It is karge enouh for 2 pairs, if possible can you get a smaller cage for the societies, ajd a third for the green singerd? Or get a second similiar size ajd move the societies ajd green singers into that one?

[Ursula]

Welcome to the forum!

I agree with Sally and Dante. The cage sounds very small and cordon bleu males don't get along usually. If you don't have room for another cage and. I option to swap a male for a female it would probably best to give them back. Maybe you daughter can have her own pair when you can find a female/male Pair and make them their own enclosure.

From what I could see in the movie, the cage setup that you have seems nice though, it looks pretty!

[slinglings]

I'm confused~ I was told that our cage could hold about 12 birds (not that I want to get more!) My measurements are in inches, not CM, in case that matters ;) So do I need to actually get rid of some birds or would they be OK in this size cage assuming everyone gets along?

I have called a few stores in the area (it is a chain) and I found one single female at another store that I can exchange one of the blue males for, assuming I can catch him ;) . Does everyone agree that this is what I should do?

I really did research this before buying the birds, really! I am getting conflicting information everywhere I go I feel responsible for these little things and really want them to be happy and comfortable. Other than the two minor squabbles~ they have otherwise seemed happy.

[Sally]

It is difficult when you are researching, as you do find conflicting information, and you don't always know who to believe. At the Finch Information Center, linked at left, there is a cage calculator listing under Housing. You put in the measurements (don't bother with height), and it says 3-4 birds for that size cage. That is a very nice size cage, and could hold more birds if they weren't breeding pairs. Any time you have more than one pair of any species in a cage, it changes things.

All your birds are passive except for the pair of Green Singers. That species can become pushy when breeding. You could maybe get away with the CBs, Gouldians, and Societies in that cage, with the Green Singers in their own cage. Or you can leave it as is, but be aware that you may have to run to the petshop to get another cage. If you are interested in breeding at all, then you would need more cages anyway, as any babies that would hatch will add to the population, and soon you would have serious overcrowding.

Cute Red-cheeked Cordons!! They look like they have bonded, and may get along as long as there is no hen present. I have multiple males in a large flight, and for the most part, they get along. Small squabbles from time to time, but nothing serious. Add a hen to the mix, and you get big-time fights. If another store has a hen and will let you make a trade, that would give you a m/f pair. You would still have to keep an eye on all the relationships, they often change overnight. Breeding pairs always need more space because of territorial issues, they need to feel their nest/babies are safe. Day length does have some effect on breeding condition, longer days stimulates them, but some will breed even with shorter days.

[slinglings]

Is a M/F pair always considered a breeding pair, even if they don't breed?

And when you say 'as long as there is no hen present', do you mean a female cordon blue or do you mean *any* species female?

We do have another large wire cage, but it isn't something I want set up permanently. We used it for quarantine and plan to keep it in case of illness, etc. The cage we have set up is something we built, and it is beautiful~ and cost a fortune. LOL. I love being able to see the birds so well. Wire bars block too much of the bird to me.

[DanteD716]

Is a M/F pair always considered a breeding pair, even if they don't breed?

And when you say 'as long as there is no hen present', do you mean a female cordon blue or do you mean *any* species female?

We do have another large wire cage, but it isn't something I want set up permanently. We used it for quarantine and plan to keep it in case of illness, etc. The cage we have set up is something we built, and it is beautiful~ and cost a fortune. LOL. I love being able to see the birds so well. Wire bars block too much of the bird to me.

Yes, all species. If you chose all males in a cage, or all hens, it would be different. If you do not want fighting, remove all nests. If you want to breed, move the singers.

[Sally]

I usually refer to a m/f pair as a breeding pair, though I have had a few m/f pairs that never were interested in breeding, they'd just cuddle together, preen, and enjoyed each other's company. I've always assumed those pairs were older, so not interested in breeding any longer. And when I say as long as no hen is present, usually I am referring to the same species, or a closely related species. Normally, I leave breeding pairs together year round, I don't split them up while resting. But when I have extras, I keep them in all-male or all-female cages, preferably where they can't see the opposite sex.

[finchmix22]

I agree with Sally. The rccb's (red cheek cordon blues), which are one of my favorites finches, do better in a pair in a breeding cage or a large flight cage that has other compatible finches. My rccb's were housed in a flight that measured 64inches by 30inches and they were with two other pairs. Now, the same flight cage has all hens of different species and the rccb's are in a breeding cage. My GS pairs do fine in the mixed flight cages and are not overly aggressive. The males don't sing much when they have a mate, but if other males start singing, they join in with their own song. GS need flight space and so I would move some finches. If you have 8 finches in a 40 in cage, that is a bit crowded and there is more likely to be fighting for perches and space. Definitely don't put nests in that size cage with that amount of finches. That increases any aggression. Society's and gouldians like nests, but GS and rccb's don't need a nest, unless breeding. They sleep on perches. So, you could split the group into the rccb's and GS in one cage and the Society's and gouldians in the other cage. Good Luck.

[Lisa]

I probably have an oddball situation but I have two male red cheeked cordon bleus together in a cage with TWO nests (for comfort only). One is an open nest, the other is closed off. The two get along very well, they sleep together every night. If one is in one nest and the other in the other nest, the one will sing/call to the other ALL NIGHT LONG until the second one joins him lol. They very, very rarely bicker. On a rare occasion, they get into what I call beak fencing for a second or two but they've never chased or tried to pluck each other. Usually when one is crabby, he will go into the closed hut for a while and have some alone time.

If your society is a single society in your cage, they may be singling him out sort of as a 2 on 1 scenario. Is the society much smaller and/or subdued compared to the rest?

[slinglings]

I have two societies and they are nearly the largest birds in the cage. The bleus are actually the smallest. They seem to be getting along fine since I posted. I'm still debating trying to catch one and trade it for the girl. It will be quite an ordeal and quite a drive to get it. I have until tomorrow night.

Lisa~my two bleus sound much like yours. I hate to split them up, really, but if it is going to cause problems later I should probably do it. They call out to each other frequently, and if one is ready for bed and the other isn't, he will sit in the nest and call out to him..sort of a screechy caw caw caw caw.

I know now why the Gouldians are in the nest so much. They laid eggs. They aren't sitting on them consistently. I'm trying to convince the husband to build another nice big cage just for the Gouldians and perhaps Societies. I doubt it will happen and I don't know where we'd put it anyway A girl can dream.