Novice, and I need advise

lovelyplayfellow · Post by **lovelyplayfellow** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 3:16 pm

I got two society finches from the humane society for my birthday over a year ago. They were donated by a woman who let her finches breed to the point where she had 12 finches that she was giving away. The humane society told me they thought they were both male-- brothers.
I found out a few months after I got them that they are brother and sister-- they had laid eggs in the wicker nest I had provided. I took out the nest, and they haven't laid since then. However, last week I found two eggs on the bottom of the cage. The only change in environment is there is a cage with two more finches in the room, as I have been boarding a friend's since January. I can't care for baby finches, and don't want anymore birds. I also don't want to separate the brother and sister, as they have always been together and seem such social birds.
What should I do? I can put the wicker nest back in with fake eggs that I have for finches, but I don't know if that will keep them from breeding. I don't want little inbred babies, and I don't want my female to keep laying. Should I separate them? Or try fooling them with the fake eggs?
I need expert opinion.
Thanks!

lonchura_boi · Post by **lonchura_boi** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 3:23 pm

breeding siblings dont do any harm for a generation or two, indeed ive found the first generation sibling pairs, or mother-son /father-daughter pairings, often produce very good quality birds. its called "line breeding" and many breeders, particularly show breeders practice this. as long as fresh blood is brought in on a regular basis (every 3rd generation for example) its fine.

dummy eggs will do the job for your birds, give them a basket with 3 or 4 plastic dummy eggs and leave them to it, they will sit on these eggs for weeks. when they eventualy abandon them, give them a few weeks without the eggs and if they show signs of nesting again introduce the dummy eggs

lovelyplayfellow · Post by **lovelyplayfellow** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 4:06 pm

thanks so much!

beccafigs · Post by **beccafigs** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:43 pm

lonchura boi- That's good to know. I know a lot of people are so paranoid about inbreeding, and I hadn't said anything but I am sure societies are probably related since I was informed that they were in the same cage since they came in at the same time. They have 4 healthy chicks as far as I can tell and they are excellent parents. I don't plan to let them breed with their babies (or any more for that matter). But there hasn't been any harm from this time.

williep · Post by **williep** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:50 am

lonchura_boi wrote:breeding siblings dont do any harm for a generation or two, indeed ive found the first generation sibling pairs, or mother-son /father-daughter pairings, often produce very good quality birds. its called "line breeding" and many breeders, particularly show breeders practice this.

Lonchura, you always seem to throw the preverbal spanner in all my works, now I have to go and do some more research on line breeding. Any idea if this will work with gouldians? Are the line offspring not genetically smaller in most cases?

Post by **Sally** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:54 am

Yes, lonchura_boi keeps challenging the traditional way of thinking, and I think it is great. I have been told by so many breeders that I need to have a minimum of three unrelated pairs of a species, so that I can breed youngsters to each other without breeding relatives. I'm sure you wouldn't want to just keep breeding one family indefinitely, but if you could breed say one generation with line breeding, it would give you more birds to trade with others to freshen the gene pool.

I'll have to do some more research into this, but I thank you, lonchura_boi, for bringing this up. Beccafigs, you have brought up another point--when we purchase birds, unless we purchase directly from a breeder, we have no idea where they came from--we could be buying siblings without knowing it. I've often wondered when I am at the Bird Mart, if we are all just trading out the same family.

beccafigs · Post by **beccafigs** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:48 am

That's an interesting point Sally. I suppose it could be that you are trading related birds, although by the time you get them hopefully there are some other genes in the mix too. At least you have healthy birds, right?

FeatherHarp · Post by **FeatherHarp** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:50 am

This line breeding idea is something new to me....It is hard to imagine there would be no consequences from doing this. It this true for all finches or does it only work with certain breeds?

I hope this thread continues with some posting of links to learn more about this!

lonchura_boi.....do you have some sources you could share with us so we could learn more about this subject? I hope to breed Owls someday and would like to know more about the Line Breeding idea.