Few questions on zebra finches...

danjwright · Post by **danjwright** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 1:54 pm

OK, now i have researched zebra finches and tried to find the answer to the following questions but I wasn't able to.

1) I intend to keep zebra finches to feed THEIR EGGS to a hatchling egg-eater snake. Can z.finches, like chickens, be made to lay regularly or will they only lay in clutches to breed?

2) Is it safe for a female finch to take the eggs away once laid and let her lay more (will she?) if i give her enough calcium (is cuttlefish the right way to give them calcium?)?

3) How many eggs would I be able to get out of a hen, say a clutch of x every x weeks without it being unsafe for her.

4) Do hens need a male to lay eggs or will they lay infertile ones regardless. I'd rather have infertile ones as I'd feel uneasy about feeding fertile eggs to a snake.

5) If I wanted to keep several birds, what should the ratio of males to females be? Can i keep just a flock of hens?

6) How big are finch eggs?

Thanks

L in Ontario · Post by **L in Ontario** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 1:58 pm

Maybe it's just me, but I think it's WRONG to keep any finch and use it as an egg-laying machine.

And how much research did you do if you don't know how big or small Zebra Finch eggs are???

danjwright · Post by **danjwright** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:04 pm

Well, I do want them as a pet too but, just like keeping chickens, i want the eggs as well. Once the snake out-grows finch eggs and moves on to quail, I'll keep the finches as pets.
Whether I want to use the eggs for a functional purpose or not should not change anything, anyway. Thats the reason I asked if it's safe for the hens to get them to lay often. I care about their welfare AND i want their eggs.
I assume you eat chicken eggs? It's all the same thing.

I honestly can't find a picture of finch eggs that shows their size.
Anyway, if I didn't know before this, I hopefully will after so isn't this research?

B CAMP · Post by **B CAMP** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:07 pm

I think your in the wrong place myself

poohbear · Post by **poohbear** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:23 pm

You're taking the Mickey if you think people on a bird forum would answer questions like this...either that or you're taking the Mickey....period.

ruth · Post by **ruth** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:27 pm

OOOH for a minute I thought you were going to say you were going to feed the finches to the snake! BAD IDEA! I would have to come and find you and tell you off!

I agree with L in Ontario, finch eggs are teeny tiny and I would have thought you would need loads even for a small snake. Also, if you let the hens continue laying and laying, they are likely to die, I learnt that one from experience myself when I first started keeping zebras. You are supposed to let the hens have a couple of clutches and then rest them. I had a bird that had a busy breeding season and then dropped dead at the end of it. They wear themselves out. I never let them lay more than two clutches now and if they do I take the eggs and nests away to stop them. I dont think it would pay for you to try it.

danjwright · Post by **danjwright** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:35 pm

Thanks ruth, good advise .
Snakes need a surprisingly small amount of food probably an egg a week is sufficient. This is because they don't produce their own body heat. I will only let the females lay within their safe limits, don't worry.

Yes, just to clarify, I WILL NOT BE FEEDING LIVE FINCHES TO THE SNAKE, JUST THE EGGS (and infertile ones if i can).

ruth · Post by **ruth** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:20 pm

Still wouldn't do it myself. Im sorry but you were never going to get a very positive response on a forum like this. We all love our birds very much and spend our lives worrying and stressing over their wellfare.

James · Post by **James** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:26 am

Would you raise dogs to feed their puppies to a Boa?
The finch eggs are just like puppies!!!!!!!

nachoman · Post by **nachoman** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 4:50 pm

I dont really see a problem as long as he isn't over working the finch laying the eggs. No difference to me eating my chickens eggs really, just its more wide spread practice so it is socially accepted.

kittani79 · Post by **kittani79** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 5:36 pm

Oh seriously now... finch eggs are not puppies. My goodness. They don't even start developing until the hen is sitting tight. How many of us toss the infertile or undeveloped eggs on a regular basis? Heck, even finches will eat them! It's quite a lot like keeping chickens, and eating their eggs -- or, what a horrible thought, cooking their eggs to give our own finches!!

Now consider the fact that most finches are kept in MUCH better conditions than the chickens whose eggs we buy... .

Now, he is not in the wrong forum either. What he's asking is how much he can get out of a hen without endangering her. Who better to ask than people experienced with breeding finches, and people experienced in signs of stress or illness in laying hens? He's asking for the welfare of the bird, that's right up our alley.

A laying hen lays a clutch of 5-7 eggs, normally 1 per day, if I remember right. She can do a couple of clutches safely; if he takes these away and refrigerates them, 3 clutches will last 15 weeks at the least, if his snake gets one a week (which is reasonable). Two laying hens could potentially lay enough for 30 weeks, giving each the opportunity to rest a bit between clutches. Eggs keep pretty well in the fridge. My math may be off, but someone who has bred finches longer could probably work it out better.

A hen laying eggs on a frequent basis will require more than cuttlebone; vitamins in the water, some oyster shell grit, and perhaps some extra veggies/eggfood a few times a week. Calcium is not all that's needed, after all.

Depending on the size of the snake and exact feeding habits, there may be a less labor intensive option. Pinkies are pretty darn small if the snake will accept them at all... I'm sure a reptile forum may be able to offer any alternatives if they are available.

JEANNIE · Post by **JEANNIE** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 6:11 pm

Very sad post,I couldnt never do anything like that,,think it is a wrong thing to do,and on this forum/a Fincn Forum

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mickp · Post by **mickp** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:29 pm

why not do it with quail eggs instead. they are more prolific layers and the eggs are slightly larger.
before people jump all over me for saying this, quail are kept in some countries for their eggs much like chickens.

kittani79 · Post by **kittani79** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 1:26 am

I still maintain that asking in a finch forum how to keep a laying hen from getting overstressed is not the wrong place.

I also firmly believe that if you keep an animal -- ANY animal -- you are responsible for its care and feeding. Whether other people think the animal is cute or offensive is beside the point.

I'm a little surprised by the hostility towards someone trying to maintain the health of not one but two different kinds of animals. I may be biased because I do have cats and birds and snakes and fish... I am used to feeding a variety of things to all of them, and don't find any of them scary or gross. I know a lot of people don't like snakes, but they are animals worthy of respect like any other. Everything has to eat. I buy frozen mice for my python, because I took him in as a rescue and that's as close to his natural diet as I can get for him.

And I still say finch eggs are not in any way like puppies. People in other parts of the forum are advocating tossing out eggs if you don't want to breed, but here saying it's murder and questioning people's morals if they want to use eggs for food for something else.

I'm curious about what species snake it is.... and if the original poster has been scared off by the reactions in the thread, I'd be happy to hear from him in a PM.

kittani79 · Post by **kittani79** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 1:30 am

Quail eggs would work, too, but if it's a very young baby snake they may be too large for them.

Unfortunately, the main problem with zebras and most other finches will be that not only will laying more than a couple clutches in a row eventually stress them out, they also aren't very predictable/consistent layers.

It may be worth mentioning that some websites indicate that hatchling egg-eaters will sometimes go for very small prey in the wild -- small salamanders, insects, and the like. I haven't a clue where you would find what would be appropriate for that species, though, or if it would be nutritious enough to raise it on until it could take quail eggs.