FINCHforum

It's unclear what the lifespan of most finches are. Take societies, for example. Some sites say 4 years, others say 10. It looks like 5-7 years is normal for them, but it's still hard to know. Same goes for fertility, although for a lot of species, years 2-4 or 5 are the most productive.

I didn't know the age of most of my birds when I got them, so I don't have enough data for much of anything so far. But I have been keeping records on Finch Breeder Database, so should get a better idea eventually.


Some useful info may be:
- Species
- Median lifespan
- Best breeding years
- Clutch size, percent fertile eggs, percent eggs hatched, percent hatched eggs fledged
- Percent of surviving juveniles
- Common causes of death
- Sudden death or gradual decline?
- Sex, mutation, diet, birds' origins, cage size, other factors that may affect lifespan or fertility

Icearstorm this has always stuck me because I’ve had coco over 3 years and he is still energetic and fertile he also was an adult when I bought him

Good morning Icearstorm!

In my aviary, the average lifespan for most species is 8-10 years with 16 being the oldest I've ever had here (an American Singer canary - ASC banded). However, that typically pertains to birds bred here, and not birds I've picked up from other breeders.

Below is the "averages" I've collected between 2008-2016. Because the averages tend to remain steady between mutations (black/browns, Greyino, red/browns, Selfs, Creamino, pied, Saddlebacks, etc.), I found no reason to separate out mutations. It does NOT include Euros at all even though I have kept some Euros here in the past (they are notoriously difficult to breed and often need to be fostered). I've not updated any articles with data recently, but perhaps some of this information will be useful to you?

These are results from MY aviary only. Typical results may be different in your own aviary!

• Bengalese typically lay their first egg 5 days after first copulation
• Average Clutch - 4-8 eggs with no real dependencies on age or experience. Our birds will lay as few as 4 eggs and as many as 8. I do not allow them to raise more than 6 at a time and typically foster additional eggs under retired hens or even single cocks.
• Average Egg Size – 17.9 millimeters (with egg sizes ranging from 15-18.2mm)
• Average Egg Weight – 1.345 Grams (with weights ranging from .975-1.461gm)
• Average Length of Time An Egg Will Remain Viable Once Laid – 7 days. If the egg is not brooded consistently by the 7 day mark, the egg will more than likely become nonviable. In most cases, clutches larger than 6 will see the 1st eggs nonviable unless the parents begin the brooding process early before the entire clutch is laid.
• Average Incubation & Hatch Dates - 15 days from the day the first egg was laid for an average clutch of 6 (if the hen broods immediately, the first egg will hatch at day 13-15, if the hen holds off brooding until more or all of the eggs are laid, 15 days is average)
• Average Fertile Eggs per clutch - 4-6 dependent on experience and overall health of parents.
• Average Weight at Hatching - .967 grams (with weights ranging from .880-2.280gm)
• Average Length at Hatching - 19.48mm (with length ranging from 18.66-22.03mm)
• Average Intake Per Feeding - Crop Contents at 1 Day - .2 ml - crop milk & white millet
• Average Intake Per Feeding - Crop Contents at 3 Days - .4 ml – white millet & some darker seeds
• Average Intake Per Feeding - Crop Contents at 5 Days - .5 ml – all seeds.
• Average Intake Per Feeding - Crop Contents at 7 Days - .5 ml – all seeds
• Average Intake Per Feeding - Crop Contents at 10 Days - .5 ml - all seeds
• Average Age of Open Eyes - 8 days
• Average Age of Pinning - 5 days
• Average Age at Closed Banding - 7-9 days with D sized band (2.73 mm ID)
• Average Age of Full Feathering - 12 days
• Average Days at Fledge - 22-26 dependent on environment. Brushed aviaries tend to see chicks fledge as soon as 18 days.
• Average Weight at Fledge – 16.737gms
• Average Age Weaned - 30 days
• Average Age of Males First Song – 20 days
• Average Age Begin Juvenile Molt - 28 days - dependent on environment
• Average Age Finish Juvenile Molt - 76 days (just over 2 months of age - dependent on environment)
• Average Adult Weight - 18.203 Grams - my Bengalese weigh as much as 24 grams for our large show birds and as little as 16 grams for our smaller "pet quality" birds. Weight will be dependent on genetics, diet and overall health.
• Average Age of Retirement - Hens - 4 1/2 to 6 years dependent on overall health, vitality of the hen, and size of her eggs (when they start diminishing in size, I pull the hen to the retirement flight)
• Average Age of Retirement - Cocks - at demise
• Average Lifespan - birds bred and raised in our aviary - 8-9 years - some of our Bengalese have lived 10-12 years, but typically develop Gout or other health issues around the 8yr mark. This quickly speeds their decline.
• Average Lifespan - birds purchased from other breeders – 4-5 years

Larksnest:
Q: on your setup and scale used to collect your data.
I've thought of using a small transport cage on a scale with a tare adjustment for bird weights. Is that the sort of setup you use?
Scales range from el-cheapo prices to analytic versions. Any suggestions for something accurate in increments of say 0.2 or 0.5gm and durable without going to a lab quality scale?

Fraza

Yeah, I've had Tacocat for a similar amount of time, and he's still doing well. His band says he hatched in 2014.

LarksNest

Wow, that's a lot of info; thank you! My societies are in the 14 gram range most of the time, at a body condition score of 3. They're part Euro, so it's a bit strange that they're on the smaller side.

Icearstorm yeah it’s crazy and then I have had younger ones that have died in the nest randomly must be how good the bloodlines are

LarksNest that’s a lot of info do you think breeding one finch who has a very high fertility and lifespan with another will therefore make the chicks carry this attribute or does it not matter

Hey Paul-inAZ,

I actually use a jewelry scale because it measures far smaller than most other gram scales. Some African chicks are so tiny that they don't even register on other scales. I do have the ability to weigh in ounces as well as several other measures, but I use grams.

To make it simple, I wrap the birds in tissue paper and weigh them. Of course I weigh the paper first, then wrap up the bird so they can't escape. If I could figure out how to add photos to posts, I'd show you what I mean. Any insight there?

I believe I paid about $20 for my scale and have been using it for years. Got it off of Ebay. Looked cheap in the photos, but is actually pretty nice, all things considered. It came with calibration tools and I calibrate at the beginning of every breeding season so I know it's accurate! I have a second one I use as backup (in case I don't have replacement batteries) which was even cheaper, and both measure to .001gm. So I guess the answer is cheap is okay - either that or I've been really lucky! LOL

do you think breeding one finch who has a very high fertility and lifespan with another will therefore make the chicks carry this attribute or does it not matter

Hey Fraza,

That's a good question. I'd have to say it's definitely part of it!

With my birds, I use the massive amount of the data I track to decide which birds to pair - some of which includes the information you have the question about, but also includes their overall health, conformation, weight and size. The information in that chart I posted is just a mere fraction of the data I track. But all of that information creates a "big picture". There's also a bit of instinct involved. Of course sometimes my imagination runs away with me and the results are not as good as I expect, but for the most part, the combination of data and instinct has turned out some really fine birds.

I try to choose the overall best birds in my flock and pair them with lesser birds with flaws I'd like to breed out. That may not sound like a good plan, but it has worked well for me over the years - for both strengthening a line and producing healthy chicks.

Hey Icearstorm,

I've not seen Euros that are larger than my own Americans, so I'm not sure how to tell you to get yours larger! Sounds like a fun challenge to me! LOL

LarksNest yeah thanks for all the information anyway I’ve only been doing it around 2 maybe 3 years but I have a good flick as I met someone who has been breeding finches over 40 years and he gave me a few pairs to get me started properly

But I see a difference with his pairs he gave me compare to some other people’s. even down to the feathers, for example the javas I got off him have really neat feathers that line really neat whereas some other peoples I have seen are ruffled and fall out often

LarksNest

If anything, I prefer smaller birds. They seem to fly more easily. Most of the Euros I've seen were pretty large birds compared to the slimmer Americans, at least as far as the selfs go.

Larksnest:
Thanks.
I won't be weighing newborn chicks so don't need a scale to 3 decimal places of sensitivity. Tenths of a gm looks OK to me. A drink of water or a poop would make the hundredths of a gram spurious.
Wrapping in tissue seems daunting to me as far as escape risk.
My thought is to use the little cardboard boxes that pet stores use when they sell a bird. These weigh very little and a bird ought to sit quietly in the dark while being weighed.

But I see a difference with his pairs he gave me compare to some other people’s. even down to the feathers

I'm guessing that's probably nutritional! Especially for Javas who should be "smooth" all over and are pretty easy to keep that way with the proper nutrition and enough cage space. If your friend's birds are smooth and neat, he's doing it right! And probably a really good guy to keep as a friend! Pick his brain!!! LOL