Shipping Birds USPS vs Airlines

nixity · Post by **nixity** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:49 am

I don't really understand how big companies get away with openly advertising shipping exotics through USPS when it is totally, 100% illegal.

JohnBoy · Post by **JohnBoy** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:03 pm

nixity wrote:I don't really understand how big companies get away with openly advertising shipping exotics through USPS when it is totally, 100% illegal.

Some can't be shipped through USPS. Mostly just the finches. USPS has designed a special bird shipping box to ship them in. It's really a well thought out design. Shipping of birds that can chew their way out and escape is forbidden. A sample of the box can be viewed at SWA web site.

nixity · Post by **nixity** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:15 pm

JohnBoy wrote:
nixity wrote: Some can't be shipped through USPS. Mostly just the finches. USPS has designed a special bird shipping box to ship them in. It's really a well thought out design. Shipping of birds that can chew their way out and escape is forbidden. A sample of the box can be viewed at SWA web site.

Shipping finches through USPS isn't "legal" :\
They might over look it, but according to their policies you could technically be fined for it.

USPS didn't design that box.
That box is designed by a company called Horizon, and those boxes are designed to be USPS approved for poultry, which are the only live birds technically you are legally allowed to ship.

Just sayin'.. it's amazing they haven't gotten in trouble, but I don't this USPS pays much attention to what goes in the boxes.. or cares..

"9.3.4 Adult Fowl

Disease-free adult fowl may be mailed domestically when shipped under applicable law in accordance with 1.7. Adult chickens, turkeys, guinea fowl, doves, pigeons, pheasants, partridges, and quail as well as ducks, geese, and swans are mailable as follows:

a. The mailer must send adult fowl by Express Mail in secure containers approved by the manager of Mailing Standards (see 608.8.0 for address).

b. The number of birds per parcel must follow the container manufacturer limits and each bird must weigh more than 6 ounces.

c. Indemnity may be paid only for loss, damage, or rifling, and not for death of the birds in transit if there is no visible damage to the mailing container.

9.3.5 Warm-Blooded Animals

Warm-blooded animals, except the specified birds under specific conditions in this section, are not mailable (e.g., hamsters, mice, rats, guinea pigs, rabbits, cats, dogs, squirrels, parakeets, and canaries). "

nixity · Post by **nixity** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:34 pm

Here's a more specific USPS publication that lists Finches:
http://pe.usps.com/cpim/ftp/pubs/Pub52/pub52.pdf

Live Birds
Live birds, other than the type of day-old poultry specified in 526.31, are
nonmailable. In addition, day-old poultry vaccinated with Newcastle disease
(live virus) is nonmailable. The following are some examples of nonmailable
birds:
a. Canaries.
b. Cockatiels.
c. Finches.
d. Parakeets.
e. Parrots.
f. Adult birds, except those specifically permitted under the conditions in
DMM 601.9.3.4 and 601.9.3.5.
Be aware that the preceding list is not all-inclusive. Generally, all types of
birds not listed in DMM 601.9 are nonmailable

JohnBoy · Post by **JohnBoy** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:41 pm

Well I guess its just like media mail. Only certain media such as books, cd's, records, etc. are suppose to be allowed. But all kinds of stuff is mailed media. And sorry, I meant USPS approved not designed.

JohnBoy · Post by **JohnBoy** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:58 pm

I found this on the USPS what can and cannot be shipped

Mailing Live Animals
Anyone shipping live animals must call the District Expedited Services Office (ESO), which coordinates and clears such shipments. The ESO will tell you where to drop off your “live” shipment and notify the accepting office.

The availability of a drop-off site may vary depending on transportation or the retail site’s ability to handle large volumes. The ESO tries to make acceptance points for live animal shipments widely available and ensure protection of the lives while in the postal system.

With the September 25, 2006 inception of live animal mail transport on the FedEx Network, the number of retail outlets available for live animal acceptance increased significantly. Transportation on commercial carriers continues to be available. For more FedEx network details:

So it appears that USPS has a deal with FedEx.

nixity · Post by **nixity** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:10 pm

That doesn't explain what can and can't be shipped, it just explains what you need to do if you're wanting to arrange a shipment of animals.

USPS does allow you to ship birds, but their regulations clearly exclude the shipment of finches, that's all.

In terms of FedEx, all they are saying is that the number of locations where you can drop off shipments has increased, because FedEx began allowing certain live shipments, but they do not authorize the shipment of housepets - only exotic amphibians, reptiles, and certain non-poisonous insects.

CandoAviary · Post by **CandoAviary** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:36 pm

Hey guys, I found this article from the editor of NFSS and found it to be very informative. Many reputable breeders ship there birds by mial. I have received shipments via Delta flights but have no experience with the mailing so cannot comment on personal experience. But after researching this subject I have found tons of breeders who do and they acknowledge that they are shipping live finches. They also recommend this process so it's not just the big companies that do it...even NFSS small breeders.

www.geocities.com/rainforest/canopy/2450/ker-ship.html

nixity · Post by **nixity** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:50 pm

First of all let me just apologize for this thread getting hijacked :/
I realize this is totally off the topic at hand, so I'm sorry.

2nd - I just want to reiterate that I realize there are multiple people who are willing to ship USPS.

All I am saying, is just because someone is willing to, and just because it is done frequently without people getting into trouble, doesn't mean it is legal, and doesn't mean there will never be problems with it.
Being that I deal daily with a local P.O. that is completely incompetent, it doesn't surprise me to think that most local post offices do not understand the live animal regulations or simply do not care enough.
In many instances, the contents are not described adequately for the workers to really be able to tell what it is inside other than "Live Birds."
Since some "Live Birds" are okay to ship, far be it from them to open and inspect every package to be sure it is something that falls into the guidelines.
If you happen to have a sending or receiving post office where the workers KNOW the regulations, and they find out the birds being shipped are excluded from the allowed list, your birds are most likely going to be rejected for delivery, and they will often follow up with the sender to explain the policies regarding live shipments along with a warning, as there are criminal penalties for shipping non-mailable items.

To me - it is primarily an issue of money.
People shipping birds are reluctant to pay the high costs of airline shipping, and breeders wanting to get that "last sale," will sometimes be willing to skip past regulations to do so.

I have a difficult enough time sending my birds air cargo, I would never in my life be able to put them in the hands of the USPS - especially knowing that shipments have been lost or excessively delayed on numerous occasions, sometimes costing some or all of the birds their lives.
It's just not a risk I'd be willing to take. But that's just my "opinion."

CandoAviary · Post by **CandoAviary** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:04 pm

I would not ever ship through the mail either. I have had so many problems with just regular packages

I agree that most postal employees do not know the regulations...and do not care. That is evident with the number of people that do it and do it openly.
I wasn't supporting the idea just sharing stuff I found while researching

I think I would have a hard time shipping eggs also? I just do not trust the mail system that much and to me those little embryos are living creatures. I wouldn't want to risk thier chance at life. I guess you would call me a pro life chick activist

nixity · Post by **nixity** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:20 pm

CandoAviary wrote: I think I would have a hard time shipping eggs also? I just do not trust the mail system that much and to me those little embryos are living creatures. I wouldn't want to risk thier chance at life. I guess you would call me a pro life chick activist

I can understand that, too.
I don't think you are alone in that sentiment

The 5 eggs I sent Gary, 3 hatched.
The three eggs I kept for myself from one of the pairs, none of them hatched, they were all DIS - either early or mid-late - so it just goes to show that it doesn't necessarily guarantee anything to keep them either.
Who knows, if I had kept the remaining 2, maybe none of them would have hatched :/
At least he got one baby from that pair

Truth is, I don't have a huge operation, but I do allow my pairs at least 2-3 clutches so I can get the mutations I want from the pairing. The rest of the babies are placed for sale in other homes.
So to me it's like, why not send a few eggs to individuals who want to swap bloodlines, or have a hard time finding good birds.
Share the wealth, I guess..

A fertile egg that hasn't begun incubating isn't "alive" yet, so there isn't even a way to guarantee it will develop whether it is sent or kept. :/
I had poultry eggs shipped to me before and generally had the same - about 60% - success rate in hatching

JohnBoy · Post by **JohnBoy** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:14 pm

Well if it weren't for the USPS mail I would never see a finch other than Zebras, Societies, Goulds and Javas. That is all I ever see in my area. I have had a friend take me to shows in New Orleans but every bird I bought from the shows died. I spent $800 with Texas Pride Aviary. When I got home I noticed on my bill that I was over charged $60. The birds were all stressed out and died 2 weeks later. her guarantee was one week. Even if they would have died before the week my emails to the Owner went unanswered. I guess the long drive from Texas to New Orleans was not a good thing for the birds. Not only that if a dealer has 3 shows in a row the birds are stressed out that much longer from being on the road for 3 weeks.
It's not that I don't want to pay the airport shipping cost. I am 83 miles from the NO airport and with my bad back the trip is not worth it cause I am crippled for days after and can't get out of bed. I would love to maybe one time make a huge order from Birds Express and take the ride to NO. But my experience has been excellent with the USPS so as of now I have no problem with it.

Post by **Hilary** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:32 pm

http://www.finchforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=102

mike · Post by **mike** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:38 pm

You just need a big padded envelope and you're good to go!

Post by **Sally** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 2:52 am

I split this discussion off from the original thread 'Yellow-hooded Blackbirds', as it is definitely an important subject which would have been lost if left where it was. Also, Candace found an excellent article on shipping birds. Since it was an article that may have been copyrighted, I have placed a link to the article in her posting. It is one of the best articles I have ever seen on shipping, and needs to be read by anyone who wants to ship or wants birds shipped to them. Thanks for that information, Candace!

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