FINCHforum

Hello All,

I'd like to share with you all, a story that just happened with me. I wanted very much to purchase a pair of gloster canaries and had this supposed veteran champion breeder cheat me.

I will copy paste my interaction with him and write about my exchanges with him via text and phone conversation.

Firstly, I'd like to begin by stating this man focuses on the novice breeder. He knows the pain they feel and wants to sell to them to possibly hurt them again. So here's the story:

I contact a person on the net from his site. He talks about how the novice breeder is being scammed, a practice a lot of breeders are doing today. They dump their canary culls onto unsuspecting newbies and lie to them so that they get disillusioned with breeding.

This story is true with me. We even have breeders passing themselves off as champs buying trophies with their names on it etc.

So I felt he was sincere. I spoke with him over the phone and he spoke of all the negative issues in buying and selling and the BS that goes on in the shows etc etc. then he gets talking to me about his birds, he has three qualities: starter, intermediate and choice.

He claims I cannot buy any now and must reserve them for the fall and pay upfront because he has lots of international customers who reserve his canaries by the end of the year he's sold out.

I tell him I want the starter pair, he gets a bit upset. Why not buy the intermediate pair? It's just a hundred dollars more he says. I explain I can't afford it. He says ok... I can give you intermediate pair whenever you have the money..

So.... I'm thinking why does he want me to buy the intermediate pair and how come this supposed waitlist for canaries is suddenly flexible ?

Ok... I go ahead and ask to buy. He says to me.. Well you have to purchase my probiotic from my site using PayPal in the same dollar amount for birds and then I'll send an email conformation that the purchase was actually for birds.

......this is in obvious violation of PayPal policies and another red flag.. At that point I'm just going to scambait and waste his time.

I claim my card is stolen wait until mid next week for my new card to come in.

Monday hits and he's already emailing me. He wants me to buy them now.. Only 248 for the INTERMEDIATE pair wow what an offer. I tell him ok.. Let me find a friend to use their card or money.
I call him up.

Why not just send me a PayPal request for birds? He sends one, using very vague language under notes and nothing under product description. Why? Because he wants to screw anyone over on buyer protection and he knows how it works.

I ask, how come the color is not even mentioned... Oh well.. I'll send you a conformation email.

He claims he wants to help new breeders, yet he won't send information for free.

I Ask around about him. People are getting birds that die very fast or none at all. Ok.. Time for me to waste more time.

Another day passes because of my excuses.

He texts me telling me to wire money via money gram or western union. We all know these payments are considered personal and not business and no way to get money back at all.

Please be careful when dealing with this person, know you are doing so in possible risk of losing money and violating PayPal policies and thus rendering your buyer protection void due to #1 length of time before opening a case and #2 violating policy by agreeing to pay for one thing in description but receiving another.

TailFeathers

A person always has to be so cautious.

I always prefer to meet people in person and get a feel for them. Some people you get good vibes, others not so much. If I don't get a good feeling, I walk away. If I feel a person is honest and asks for a fair price, I will pay it. If I feel that they are over charging, I will haggle them into the ground.

Thanks for the warning, and good luck finding an honest breeder, who will sell you good , healthy birds and be willing to answer your questions and offer advice and support in years to come.

~Elana~

Oooh...that's shady.

I strongly recommend that you contact Paypal to report this fellow.
They take this sort of thing very seriously. It undermines the system and threatens the viability of Paypal as a platform.

I'm very gullible, so I make it a point to research everyone I deal with online and prefer to deal with people in person. But unfortunately, that's not always possible.

Thank you for sharing!

You didn't mention the website, do you have a link?
I've had paypal for years and have never had a card.

Sooo many red flags on this one, glad you didn't rush into things

MiaCarter wrote: Oooh...that's shady.

I strongly recommend that you contact Paypal to report this fellow.
They take this sort of thing very seriously. It undermines the system and threatens the viability of Paypal as a platform.

I'm very gullible, so I make it a point to research everyone I deal with online and prefer to deal with people in person. But unfortunately, that's not always possible.

Thank you for sharing!

I tired to report him, but there is no way to do it without a PayPal act which I don't have.

Unfortunately, the very nature of the hobby bird business lets these scammers thrive. So many of us have to send money for unseen birds, it is very scary. This is why I always try to deal only with people I know, though this isn't always possible for others. When thinking of purchasing, whether it is birds, cages, or supplies, you can always post on here asking for recommendations/experiences.

It is very easy and free to set up a Paypal account. This fellow should be reported, as he will continue to try to scam unsuspecting buyers.

It is a great pity that this person can't be named and shamed.

TailFeathers lovezebs MiaCarter debbie276 MariusStegmann

I'm going to move this thread to the Finch Chat forum.

I had a similar experience attempting to buy Gouldians from a breeder in FL. Paid with Paypal and shipping was delayed week after week. The time to file a claim with Paypal was approaching - which I did after notifying the seller that I would be doing so. The refund was provided as soon as the Paypal case was filed.

If you are going to try buying from an unknown source, just make sure you use Paypal. Paypal is good at refunding payment as long as you file a case within the time frame.
Gene

TailFeathers - You can report the situation without having an account.
You just need to open the case by phone: 1-888-221-1161

(See the button to the right on this page: https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/websc ... tact-phone)

Do you have written correspondence where he told you to buy a product instead of indicating the payment was for birds? Screencaps of those and the man's info would be very helpful I'm sure.
Once you've got a case opened by phone, ask the representative where you can send those and I'm sure they'll be eager to investigate.

MiaCarter wrote: TailFeathers - You can report the situation without having an account.
You just need to open the case by phone: <a href="tel:1-888-221-1161">1-888-221-1161</a>

(See the button to the right on this page: https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/websc ... tact-phone)

Do you have written correspondence where he told you to buy a product instead of indicating the payment was for birds? Screencaps of those and the man's info would be very helpful I'm sure.
Once you've got a case opened by phone, ask the representative where you can send those and I'm sure they'll be eager to investigate.

Yes I do

TailFeathers - Ah, that's perfect.
I'd give Paypal a call, tell them the story and let them know you've got screencaps and documentation.
They'll shut him down.

Anyone can sign up for a Paypal account, but you can't accept more than a couple thousand dollars on an account without entering a SSN. And you need to enter your SSN to get a check, withdraw it to a bank account or get a debit card.
So it really does help to report because if he's got his SSN linked to that account, he'll never be able to use Paypal again.
You could theoretically make up different identities, but you'd need a SSN to actually use the money with any degree of ease.

MiaCarter wrote: TailFeathers - Ah, that's perfect.
I'd give Paypal a call, tell them the story and let them know you've got screencaps and documentation.
They'll shut him down.

Anyone can sign up for a Paypal account, but you can't accept more than a couple thousand dollars on an account without entering a SSN. And you need to enter your SSN to get a check, withdraw it to a bank account or get a debit card.
So it really does help to report because if he's got his SSN linked to that account, he'll never be able to use Paypal again.
You could theoretically make up different identities, but you'd need a SSN to actually use the money with any degree of ease.

He's been reported. I'm assuming this needs to go further with other organizations being notified. I want this guy shut down. I've asked around ... Apparently he's been doing this for a while and people are sick of him.

You can't mention his name on the forum? Am I understanding this correctly? It's ok, I just want to make sure, so that I know if i ever want to post something...i don't want to get kicked off...it's my favorite forum EVER!!!! So happy you were smart enough to Out Smart this guy!! A$$. Anyway, good for you for being....one step ahead, and good for you for reporting, i think this happens to people a lot and they DON'T report, and that's why it keeps happening!!! Kudos all around Sweetheart!!!

The only thing I can say is be careful and the breeder has a focus on Glosters. Other than that, it's up to the potential buyer to put the pieces together.

I spoke with several people on the net from several states, they all said he's very vindictive and threatens lawsuits periodically. I don't have the time to play kiddy games with this guy which is the only reason I'm avoiding him.