Inexperienced and surprised

Updates, stories, and other finch related topics.
User avatar
MisterGribs
2 Eggs Laid
2 Eggs Laid
Posts: 749
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:07 pm
Location: Vantaa, Finland

Inexperienced and surprised

Post by MisterGribs » Mon Feb 20, 2017 3:36 pm

I am new to finches. I have never even fathomed trying to care for their delicate eggs myself but here I am, a slave to a cardboard box next to my pillow, consumed entirely.

I recently bought a pair of zebras that enthusiastically laid their first clutch of eggs, but either were still too unhealthy or too young to know what they were doing and abandoned their eggs, immediately starting another nest.

In desperation, I snatched them up. I read that they can still be saved if you get them early, before one week has gone by, and I researched like mad, trying to learn how to build an incubator with what little I had on hand.

A small cardboard box, thin sheets of shipping foam, umpteen napkins, hand sanitizer, salt water and jute fibers were all I had on hand to build the incubator itself. For heating, all I had was a small under-tank heat mat purchased to incubate my mealworm colony. The heat mat has only two settings: the fire of a thousand suns, and off.

For temperature monitoring, I only have a battery powered baby thermometer(which has a yellow duck head on it and looks ridiculous, by the way). I tried to make a hygrometer the old fashioned way but ALAS!! My hair is too short, my wife's hair is even shorter, and I don't know anyone well enough to ask for some. ~X( The resulting hygrometer had increments too small for the naked eye, so I simply have to guess on humidity until I get paid and can run out to the nearest outlet to buy one. D:

There were tons of temperature fluctuations the first night. I had to check the temperature, and correct the amount of padding, distance, air exchange, etc almost constantly. The temperature sometimes would drop down below 32, or rise up over 41, nothing I did seemed to stabilize the temperature, and by the time I figured out to put the three remaining eggs into a fluffed-up bed of jute and got the ventilation and padding JUST right, I was sure I had already goofed up and that the eggs were either frozen or fried by now.

It hadn't been much time, I have been 'sitting tight' on my little eggs for only a few days, so I decided to give it time and see. Every fifteen minutes I would wake up, check the temperature, adjust the nest, and go back to sleep. All day long I would do the same. I turned them every 3.5 hours. I have not slept properly in a very long time, and I was slaving away over eggs I was pretty sure were already dead.

One egg was infertile with a tiny yolk, that one was discarded. Another egg has a normal sized yolk but, as of yet, no further signs of life. The third egg has a blastocyst with no sign of an embryo, and the fourth egg seemed ambiguous, with some dark spots and tiny smears here and there in the yolk, but nothing I could compare to any photos. For all I knew, it was just patches of bacteria feeding on a contaminated egg. I was really dismayed, but kept slaving away.

Why? Maybe I have too much time on my hands, I don't know. But I candled the eggs today to check for signs of bacteria or veins and- to my utter shock, one of the eggs BURST into activity. There is the notorious 'Spider of Life' inside, as well as a tiny little fetus no bigger than a grain of rice.

As I leaned forward, squinting in awe at what I was seeing, shocked and almost unable to believe it was really there, I actually saw a little kick! That was the last straw, I immediately had to put the egg back- I'm not usually an emotional guy, but the sight of it moving around in there, not stuck to the sides, not fried or eaten by bacteria gave me the vapors. I had to have a little cry about it and clean up again before candling the other eggs. (To my credit, I hadn't slept or properly eaten in a long time and even us tough guys gotta get emotional over the miracle of life sometimes.)

So far it's the only one that I'm sure is alive, I've really got to try hard to keep it that way, now. I'm under a lot of pressure! I hope I can keep it alive until I get paid and can order a proper incubator, or at the very least, a hygrometer.

I have no idea what I'm doing. I feel like a tyrannosaurus trying to parent a gecko over here. I could easily swallow this egg without even realizing it.
2 black cheek zebras and 5 CFW zebras, one A&M pied coturnix hen, my darling cream/lavender coturnix roo, and his attitude.

w.l.
Incubating
Incubating
Posts: 900
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:41 pm

Re: Inexperienced and surprised

Post by w.l. » Mon Feb 20, 2017 4:03 pm

Personally, I wouldn't bother artificially incubating zebra eggs.
Even if you get it to hatch, you'll have a lot of work on hand raising a newly hatched chick to adulthood with lots of chances of a failure that is more heart-breaking than simply throwing eggs away.
Have you researched what it takes?

I personally prefer to let nature take its course and only have offspring raised by parents.

Especially since you said you were to keen to breed in the first place...?

But if you decide to go through with it, and have the time and knowledge required, good luck!

User avatar
lem2bert
1 Egg Laid
1 Egg Laid
Posts: 686
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 9:02 am
Location: Lunenburg MA

Re: Inexperienced and surprised

Post by lem2bert » Mon Feb 20, 2017 4:27 pm

MisterGribs

What a nice story. I do not know what I would do in your situation, but have never been in that position.

I wish you the best of luck and please keep us posted :)
Betty 1 toy poodle and canary.

User avatar
MisterGribs
2 Eggs Laid
2 Eggs Laid
Posts: 749
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:07 pm
Location: Vantaa, Finland

Re: Inexperienced and surprised

Post by MisterGribs » Mon Feb 20, 2017 4:33 pm

w.l. wrote: Personally, I wouldn't bother artificially incubating zebra eggs.
Even if you get it to hatch, you'll have a lot of work on hand raising a newly hatched chick to adulthood with lots of chances of a failure that is more heart-breaking than simply throwing eggs away.
Have you researched what it takes?

I personally prefer to let nature take its course and only have offspring raised by parents.

Especially since you said you were to keen to breed in the first place...?

But if you decide to go through with it, and have the time and knowledge required, good luck!
I tried to trick her back into sitting on the eggs, but she just ignored them.

I definitely don't have plans to become a breeder, but having a little finch family of my own sounds nice.

It is heartbreaking, and the chances are really really tiny for success! Not being a bird myself, there's a lot of stuff I have to do to compensate for mother nature, but even if the chance is very small, I still feel like I owe it to this little egg to try! :)
2 black cheek zebras and 5 CFW zebras, one A&M pied coturnix hen, my darling cream/lavender coturnix roo, and his attitude.

User avatar
MisterGribs
2 Eggs Laid
2 Eggs Laid
Posts: 749
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:07 pm
Location: Vantaa, Finland

Re: Inexperienced and surprised

Post by MisterGribs » Mon Feb 20, 2017 4:34 pm

MisterGribs

What a nice story. I do not know what I would do in your situation, but have never been in that position.

I wish you the best of luck and please keep us posted :)
Thank you! I'm prepared to announce the death of the egg some time in the near future, but if I try hard maybe I will be lucky! I didn't even expect to get this far!
2 black cheek zebras and 5 CFW zebras, one A&M pied coturnix hen, my darling cream/lavender coturnix roo, and his attitude.

w.l.
Incubating
Incubating
Posts: 900
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:41 pm

Re: Inexperienced and surprised

Post by w.l. » Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:04 pm

w.l. wrote: Especially since you said you were to keen to breed in the first place...?
Ahh, I meant to write you said you were NOT keen to breed...!

You can't trick a female back into brooding once she has decided to stop.
It's common, and she would probably soon have more eggs that she might take better care of.
I find it funny that you feel so emotional about an egg - don't you have eggs for breakfast? ;-)
Remember that once you took the eggs away, chances are more will soon follow.
If your pair abandons those, too, will you feel compelled to incubate them as well?
Then soon you could find yourself a full-time foster parent of hand-fed zebra chicks of various ages!
They won't make a family with their parents either. Raised by you, the parents will see them as strangers and may well attack them if you try to put them together.
So you will need more cages, too!

If you don't want to breed your finches, you should just take their nestbox and nesting materials away.

User avatar
Babs _Owner
Molting
Molting
Posts: 4926
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2015 4:47 pm
Location: Southeast USA
Contact:

Re: Inexperienced and surprised

Post by Babs _Owner » Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:19 pm

MisterGribs

Last year I incubated several clutches my gouldian adults failed to sit on. I only hatched 2 babies and hand raised both to adulthood. It was a wild ride watching the eggs progress i and found them hatched in the early hours of morning. But even with a good incubator the hatch rate was very low.

I used a Mini RCom Incubator.

By the way your post had me laughing. :)) I totally understand the facination!

User avatar
MisterGribs
2 Eggs Laid
2 Eggs Laid
Posts: 749
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:07 pm
Location: Vantaa, Finland

Re: Inexperienced and surprised

Post by MisterGribs » Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:38 pm

w.l. wrote: Especially since you said you were to keen to breed in the first place...?
Ahh, I meant to write you said you were NOT keen to breed...!

You can't trick a female back into brooding once she has decided to stop.
It's common, and she would probably soon have more eggs that she might take better care of.
I find it funny that you feel so emotional about an egg - don't you have eggs for breakfast? ;-)
Remember that once you took the eggs away, chances are more will soon follow.
If your pair abandons those, too, will you feel compelled to incubate them as well?
Then soon you could find yourself a full-time foster parent of hand-fed zebra chicks of various ages!
They won't make a family with their parents either. Raised by you, the parents will see them as strangers and may well attack them if you try to put them together.
So you will need more cages, too!

If you don't want to breed your finches, you should just take their nestbox and nesting materials away.
Yes, I plan to stop at 6 finches and I currently have 4.

I am honestly shocked and embarrassed at my reaction to an egg as well! I'm not usually so sentimental. Blame it on the lack of sleep. :lol:

I might be compelled to try it! I feel like the experience will be really important to me later in life. I'm sure I will fail, as what I'm trying to do as a young idiot is extremely difficult, even for seasoned professionals.
But look at it this way: I was sure I had already failed and then later found out I had gotten much farther than I ever expected to, and farther than I was told was possible without professional equipment and I've learned a lot of things just from the beginning stages of egg.

We do have another cage coming!
2 black cheek zebras and 5 CFW zebras, one A&M pied coturnix hen, my darling cream/lavender coturnix roo, and his attitude.

User avatar
MisterGribs
2 Eggs Laid
2 Eggs Laid
Posts: 749
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:07 pm
Location: Vantaa, Finland

Re: Inexperienced and surprised

Post by MisterGribs » Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:47 pm

Babs wrote: MisterGribs

Last year I incubated several clutches my gouldian adults failed to sit on. I only hatched 2 babies and hand raised both to adulthood. It was a wild ride watching the eggs progress i and found them hatched in the early hours of morning. But even with a good incubator the hatch rate was very low.

I used a Mini RCom Incubator.

By the way your post had me laughing. :)) I totally understand the facination!
I have raised and rehabilitated wild passerines to adulthood before, but never in my wildest dreams have I ever thought of even TRYING to hatch an egg! :0

I hope to get my hands on a proper incubator soon.
2 black cheek zebras and 5 CFW zebras, one A&M pied coturnix hen, my darling cream/lavender coturnix roo, and his attitude.

w.l.
Incubating
Incubating
Posts: 900
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:41 pm

Re: Inexperienced and surprised

Post by w.l. » Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:10 pm

MisterGribs

You are not sure to fail, of course!
As Babs' post also indicates, it can be done.
It's just very time-consuming and requires lots of preparations - which you do seem prepared to make.
Best of luck with it.

PS: Getting young of parents who ignore them fostered or hand-raised is one way to ensure poor parenting skills that would naturally die out will be passed on to the next generation. This is why many breeders dislike fostering with societies, too. Ideally birds raised this way should not be bred themselves...
This is why sometimes finches sold by breeders are specifically advertised as "parent-reared", indicating they are likely to be better parents themselves.

ann
Flirty Bird
Flirty Bird
Posts: 225
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:15 pm
Location: Mission Viejo, CA

Re: Inexperienced and surprised

Post by ann » Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:21 pm

I love your post, and I totally understand. I took my baby to work, I drove around for 2 days with a tiny hatchling in my car, in a homemade brooder, feeding it every hour or so, and you can't even believe what I had to do to heat up its food. It ended up dying, but I tried my best. You have to try! I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you.
2 owls
2 red-faced parrot finches
1 parrot finch hybrid
4 societies
7 gouldians
2 canaries
2 cocker spaniels

User avatar
MisterGribs
2 Eggs Laid
2 Eggs Laid
Posts: 749
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:07 pm
Location: Vantaa, Finland

Re: Inexperienced and surprised

Post by MisterGribs » Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:25 pm

w.l.

I'll be sure to keep that in mind! I'm really glad I found this forum, I found a lot of the information I needed to care for my birds from here.
2 black cheek zebras and 5 CFW zebras, one A&M pied coturnix hen, my darling cream/lavender coturnix roo, and his attitude.

User avatar
MisterGribs
2 Eggs Laid
2 Eggs Laid
Posts: 749
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:07 pm
Location: Vantaa, Finland

Re: Inexperienced and surprised

Post by MisterGribs » Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:35 pm

ann I'm so glad to see another person so enthusiastic about a nearly hopeless cause! I can't explain it, it's just something special.

A while back, I had found a nestling lying on the ground of a house finch, just naked and bruised and no feathers, it had warbles, it was awful. Incidentally, I had to take it to work too, in a very unfriendly environment at a textile factory. I would time my bathroom breaks just so, and kept the little bird in a body brooder I made from a plastic box and backpack straps which I wore between my layers of shirts. I used my own temperature and humidity to keep my brooder hot and successfully smuggle this little bird to work

I timed my bathroom breaks so that I could feed it every hour, and would sneak to the back and feed it there as well. I brought a thermometer and feeding kit to work so I could get the food temp perfect and I kept syringes and cannulas in my work lunch.

The boss found out about my extra activities in a VERY weird way- someone had noticed me sneaking off, and possibly caught sight of me holding a syringe. They reported to the boss that I was sneaking off and shooting dope (The nerve!!), which would make sense considering how tired I was all the time and the huge bags under my eyes. He followed me.. And caught me! But what he caught me doing was so different from what he had THOUGHT I was doing that he said he felt about the size of an ant. He was so ready to fire me. Lucky me, the guy was a big softy and loved the bird. He let me bring her to work until she fledged!

Luckily there were plenty of house finches around our home to teach her the business of being a bird, and she was successfully released. I have since moved from there, but have heard that she still comes to the house, and is still shockingly tame! I hope she's doing well.
2 black cheek zebras and 5 CFW zebras, one A&M pied coturnix hen, my darling cream/lavender coturnix roo, and his attitude.

User avatar
Babs _Owner
Molting
Molting
Posts: 4926
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2015 4:47 pm
Location: Southeast USA
Contact:

Re: Inexperienced and surprised

Post by Babs _Owner » Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:00 pm

w.l.

Of my hand raised from last year, Bubbles has successfully raised 2 clutches her first year. She never skipped a beat. Her mothering skills are the best in my room. ;)

I actually selected her for breeding due to her regurgitating for other hand raised juveniles I placed in the weaning cage with her shortly after she was weaned. Her mate Jet was parent raised and together they are exceptional parents, far surpassing my older breeding pair in skills. Maybe the exception not the rule.

@MisterGribs


I am HOWLING with laughter over here at you getting "busted" by your boss!! Those dope.....er I mean bird feeding breaks!! =))

User avatar
MisterGribs
2 Eggs Laid
2 Eggs Laid
Posts: 749
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:07 pm
Location: Vantaa, Finland

Re: Inexperienced and surprised

Post by MisterGribs » Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:04 pm

babs The nerve of those people, treating me like some kind of criminal. [-X
2 black cheek zebras and 5 CFW zebras, one A&M pied coturnix hen, my darling cream/lavender coturnix roo, and his attitude.

Post Reply