Interesting chain reaction

[MisterGribs]

I got my original finches from a pet store of ill repute and they aren't good parents. For this reason, I've had to hand-rear a number of chicks.

I wanted to share some interesting things I have noticed when it comes to taming:

If hand reared finches are re-introduced to the flock before adulthood, they will 'go wild' and learn from the other finches' alarm sound (sounds like ''yip yip!!'') to be fearful of humans, even their own 'parent' humans because the others are afraid.

BUT

This recent batch, the finches were kept in another room until their adult plumage had come in completely and a bit beyond. These two hand reared adult finches were re-introduced to the other finches with no problem, the male even picked a mate straight away and is sitting on eggs. These finches ignore the wild finch alarm sound, and don't fly away from me regardless of the other birds' reaction, and because of this, the entire flock has lost some fear of humans. They are seeing the tamed male eat cheese and egg and other special treats from my hand and steal food from my plate without being scared, and now they have all started doing it. Even without the tame finch present, the parent raised human-fearing finches will now eat from my hand and allow me much, much closer. The tamed male will even let me pet his head when he's sitting on his eggs, but the parent raised ones are still very much anti-touching.

I thought I would share, I found it really interesting.

[Icearstorm]

MisterGribs

That's very interesting! It must mean that finches learn a significant amount during adolescence, which makes me think...

Would a single finch reared solely by humans until adulthood stay tame and be able to interact with other finches? From what I've read, finches raised alone often figure out their species once they are introduced to a group as juveniles.
This, combined with the fact that the second batch of birds you raised didn't learn the alarm calls, makes me think that there's a critical period for imprinting that occurs while the finch is a juvenile (opposed to waterfowl, which imprint once they hatch). In this case your newest finches could be dual-imprints, viewing both you and the birds they were raised with as members of their species. This would explain why they can still interact with non-tame finches on a regular basis, yet remain calm around you.

I have wondered what would happen if one dual-imprints finches and kept them separate from the non-tame ones. Unfortunately, this could lead to the finches lacking songs, displays, and other behaviors appropriate to their species. But from what you've indicated, tame birds introduced as adults should remain tame, so this solves a lot of issues.

Perhaps dual-imprinting could be useful for raising waxbills. They tend to be flighty and prone to abandonment, so maybe pairs of one dual-imprint and one parent-raised non-tame bird could work. Their offspring may learn to behave like normal waxbills, just minus some of the fear (remove the flighty parent after weaning, and the dual-imprint might indirectly teach the juveniles not to be afraid). These offspring birds then have the potential of being better parents than either the dual-imprints or the non-tame birds.


Maybe I'm completely off, but there would be little more I'd like than to have a flock of tame finches, so I'll keep this in mind.

[Sheather]

I've known this for a while. You need to isolate tamed babies until they pass the adult molt to make sure they stay tame. After that time, they're period of malleability closes, and however they are is how they will stay. It's why taming adult finches is so incredibly difficult, too - they're set in their ways in the opposite way.

It is the same with budgies, my tame budgie was kept alone until 5 months old, then intro'd to other birds, he has stayed as tame as he ever was as a single pet and taught other wild parakeets to be trust people.

A single finch kept totally alone and hand-raised to maturity might struggle to integrate with its own kind though. Hand-fed birds with siblings of their species naturally dual-imprint; on humans as the parent, but they also get familiarized to their own kind from living with a brother or sister. They don't learn alarm calls or the right songs because a sibling doesn't do those, but they learn to recognize their own kind and interact with another bird.

With my budgie, he was parent-raised before being separated for taming, so he already had familiarity to his species.

[MisterGribs]

IcearstormThe second batch of tame finches do know the alarm call, and use it to warn the others about the DANGEROUS BROOM when I'm sweeping. They just don't believe the untamed finches that I'm also dangerous.

As far as the song goes, the male DID start singing! The reason I kept him apart from the untamed finches for so long was to see if he would learn a song from me. It seems he was able to learn up to 4 notes of my song, but once he mingled with the other males, he picked up bits of song from two different ones! And now, to my annoyance, he imitates an annoying sound effect he heard on a song and he sounds like a car refusing to start. The ladies love it, they have really poor taste.
The alarm sound, food sound, and classic beep also all developed without the untamed finches, it seems to be instinctive.

Your theory about raising waxbills is absolutely correct, in my experience. The tamed finch we kept, the male, sits on my shoulder, and my wife's, and grooms us. He does this every day without prompting. His mate will only sit on me if it's to eat cheese out of my hand, and she doesn't allow petting. The tame male allows it and fluffs up his head sometimes for a scratch. I need to get some videos posted for you, lol.

[Icearstorm]

MisterGribs

Huh, that's even more interesting. So calls are instinctual, while the emotion behind it can be instinctual or learned (as for alarm, instinctual fear of strange objects versus fear learned from other birds' calls), while singing is instinctual with some of the notes themselves learned. I've heard of male finches reared away from adult males of their species will pick up song notes derived from songs of different species, sounds from the environment, and sometimes calls from other birds, so yours copying you makes sense. It makes me wonder what percentage of the song form is learned; if anything, it seems that the structure of the song and beginning notes are more instinctual, while the main song is mostly learned.

My society finches start their song with low-pitched quiet sounds something like "haa-huh hee-uh," while the tone, rhythm, and volume of the main song varies a lot between individuals. Two trill quietly, while two sing loudly at around half the speed. Another one has a combination of the two songs; he does the quiet trill most of the time, but occasionally punctuates it with two loud notes. It's not exactly pleasant, but is somewhat amusing.

It would be interesting to see how the zebra pair's offspring would behave around people. Would they be a mix of their parents' temperments, or would they tend to take after just one of their parents?

Videos would be great!

[lovezebs]

MisterGribs

Interesting indeed.

I have had a different experience.

Any hand reared, or hand supplemented Zebras revert back to wild behavior once introduced to the rest of the flock whether young or older. In fact an only completely hand tamed adult male who came home with me sometime ago, once introduced to the flock has reverted back to wild behavior as well.

Glad to hear that your kids are remaining tame and turning the rest of the crew to being tame.

[MisterGribs]

lovezebs Huh, I wonder if it has to do with individual birds! Or maybe a lot of the cuddly, kissy behavior humans enjoy is eventually grown out of, and reserved for mates only. He has gotten a lot more nervous of strange objects than before, such as the DEADLY BROOM, but he still lands on my head or shoulders at least once a day, and still grooms me.

[MisterGribs]

Icearstorm I just wish he had settled something a little less annoying than 'CHACKALACKA CHACKALACKA CHAKALACKA' lol

[Fraza]

MisterGribs how come it affects the birds going to a pet shop why do they not know how to bring up there chicks if they are from there?

Because people sell birds to pet shops like me so they should know how to upbring or is this because they end up in a wooden box with a cage front and loose the ability to even know what to do

[MisterGribs]

Fraza The birds were bred within the store far too closely related and strained, and kept in improper conditions. I've had to attempt to hand raise all but the last nest of babies because the parents had a very hard time learning to feed the babies for some reason. It's kust this pair that fails.

[Fraza]

MisterGribs Ohright okay I didn’t know that petshops around me don’t breed there birds they buy them from local breeders and just sell them they don’t even have nest in the cages most of the time it’s a large flightcage with 3 perches to fly from and normal seed and water

[MisterGribs]

Fraza Yeah, most stores here buy from private breeders and the country has very strict laws about keeping animals, even in stores, so as a result of a complaint from a certain someone, they don't have permission to sell birds at that branch any longer.

[haroun]

Icearstorm, few days ago i have seen on youtube a tamed mate whom inherit that thing to their offspring it was awsome to see and enjoy, realy very amazing chicjs fifollowing their parents every where their owner goes!!! it your channel?! I'm sure that's a finchforum member's channel.

[Fraza]

MisterGribs okay that’s good then that’s why I was confused at first I thought u mean because of the environment they get put it it makes them go mental or something because they are loads in small cages

[Icearstorm]

MisterGribs

Hehe, bet that sounds beautiful XD