Finally got the birds to be more quiet

[Icearstorm]

After two months of having to listen to my three youngest birds scream almost non-stop from dawn to dusk, it seems I finally found a solution that wasn't "no birds." All I did was swap the birds' between the cages, so now Macbeth and Tacocat are in the octagonal one and their sons are in the flight cage. I'm not 100% sure why this worked. Maybe Summer, Floopy, and Morty weren't happy with the new cage? Still doesn't explain why Macbeth and Tacocat are fine with it. Either way, I'm so glad that something worked, because even without some sensory processing issues, that would have been very annoying. I feel bad for my roommates, having to listen to bird screams through the walls for half a semester...

[lovezebs]

Icearstorm

How old are the youngsters?

[Sheather]

Why are they separated? Sounds like just putting them together would solve all issues. My societies cannot be apart.

[Icearstorm]

lovezebs

They're a year old.

[Icearstorm]

Sheather

I'm trying to breed Macbeth and Tacocat, and do not want to risk inbreeding. How do other people separate their birds for breeding without them carrying on? The noise doesn't seem to be a separation call (not nearly as harsh) but more of an alarm call, so I don't know what's up with that. All I know is it's only those three that are screaming, and they're terrified of me and will crash into the sides of the flight if I do so much as walk a few feet past them... But their parents just look at me if I do the same.

[Icearstorm]

Update: seems I spoke too soon. They were quiet for a while, but then went back to screaming. Still not quite as loud as before, but it really bothers me to the point where I can't be in my room for a good chunk of the time. Looks like I might need to get rid of them... I did cover part of the cage so they can't see each other (there's a light immediately above the cage so they can still see fine), but I'll have to see if that works, since I had to leave immediately afterward.

Here's the question if nothing gets better; should I get rid of those three and hope Macbeth and Tacocat have more good-quality babies, or should I try to find Floopy a mate and get rid of the other four? Alternatively, if I could get another female and have her and Macbeth use different nest boxes, I could let that female breed and toss all of Macbeth's eggs (this probably would not work though, as they tend to like sharing the same nest). I really would like to keep Macbeth and Tacocat since they're pretty calm and quiet, but Floopy's what I'm looking for in a breeding bird for everything except behavior. Plus I know how old Floopy is, so he should have a while longer, but I have no idea how old Macbeth is, and it looks like Tacocat is four, so they might be infertile soon.

[Sheather]

I don't know what call you are dealing with, if you had a video I could better advise you.

[Icearstorm]

Sheather

They weren't being quite as loud today, so imagine this from all three birds, but louder and continuing for 10+ minutes at a time. I can occasionally determine a cause (hearing Carolina wrens or someone cooking), but a lot of the time there's no clear reason... Notice how when I get closer to them they start making alarm chips; they've only done this since moving to this new place. They'll also start chirping for a few minutes when I put broccoli in their cage, which is odd considering they like to eat it.

[Icearstorm]

They've been somewhat pleasant for the last hour or two, so I have to wonder if I usually only happen to be at the house when they're loud... I'll have to stay here for a weekend and see if this really is the case. If so, I might have to adjust the lights so they come on after I leave (around 7:30).

[Sheather]

The first noise is a contact call, they can hear other society finches and want to get with them, it will not be resolved unless they can all at least see each other closely. Your birds also seem very afraid of you, the chipping at the end is an alarm call, for whatever reason they've come to think of you as a predator.

[Icearstorm]

Sheather

Guess I'll have to get rid of a few of them then, since they can't be near each other due to the way my room and the cages are configured... As far as the calls themselves go, some of the other societies I've kept had a harsher and more screamy alarm-contact call that makes even that sound not as loud :/ I wonder if it's just individual variation or if it had a slightly different meaning (Tacocat will make the higher-intensity call if he's more than a few feet away from Macbeth, and Finch the Finch and Whitehead the Vengeful made a very similar-sounding call for a week after their brother died last year). When I can figure out what triggered this call, it often starts in response to someone opening a door, me entering the room and leaving again, someone microwaving, etc, which makes me think at least part of the call is not related to separation. If I change out their water, get them fresh food, or even enter my room too quickly they usually scream consistently for a full 10-15 minutes before screaming only irregularly until the next thing upsets them. They also seem to scream more in response to Macbeth chirping than Tacocat chirping; Macbeth's the only female they've ever been in contact with, so maybe that would explain it?

As far as the alarm call goes, they've been doing that since I had them in a different room when I had just moved in. They still did that after I let them free-fly with their parents in my room a few times, and seem to be having mini panic attacks all of the time... They used to start panting every time I stood in front of the cage, but seem to gradually (but very slowly) be getting used to me existing, but I can't fathom why they're like this after they've been around me for their entire lives, whereas their parents never do that.



There are only a few things I can think of which would explain why those three are all freaked out whereas their parents are not:

-Younger: Probably not the reason; I've had young societies before, and they were fine.

-Might be Laser's offspring, not Tacocat's: This probably wouldn't explain much either, as Laser was a calm bird too.

-Separated too late from parents: They were separated at about 10 months old, while lots of people separate the offspring from their parents once they are weaned, or otherwise prior to moulting.

-Need mates: Could give them something else to focus on, but could also do nothing or freak the new birds out.

-Bonded to parents/mother, not each other: Possibly related to the previous idea, and may explain why they respond more to Macbeth's call than Tacocat's. Those three do not seem more bothered than usual when they are separated from each other, and do not tend to stick together as much during free flight. In contrast, Tacocat and Macbeth rarely fly more than a few feet away from each other, and Tacocat gets quite upset if Macbeth moves any further away. When I let all birds fly together, the younger three followed their parents and would eat spray millet while I held it shortly after watching Macbeth and Tacocat, but completely freak out if I offer the millet to them while the pair is in the cage.

-Not enough manning/desensitization to novelty in formative months: I don't know Macbeth's or Tacocat's history, but they likely came from breeders who had several cages of birds and more activity overall. On the other hand, Summer, Floopy, and Morty were all pretty sheltered and my old place was quiet with very little activity or change near or in the room I had them in. This could explain why Macbeth and Tacocat only seem apprehensive for a couple of minutes or so when I change something or add something to their cage, while the other three are more likely to fly as far away as possible and spend the next half hour chirping and wing-flicking and otherwise avoiding the object.



All I know is I can't take this for much longer, and I don't like seeing them a freaked out mess either, as that can't be good for their health. So it looks like I might have to put all my eggs in one basket and choose between either Floopy and some female or Macbeth and Tacocat for breeding. Who knows, maybe I could work something out with someone else where I keep Macbeth and Tacocat and they keep the other three, pair them up to Euro selfs, and I pay for their eggs and foster them under my pair. I don't know.

[Sheather]

That cage is huge and can house all of your birds and if they were altogether the contact calls would diminish. My societies will also do a contact call in response to some random noises they mistake for another finch and to my other bird species. Why are you trying to breed if the birds you already have are problematic for you?

The young birds probably don't have a very high tolerance for anything new if they were not socialized to things as babies. I raise my birds very hands-on with some serious socialization to prevent that - handling every day for a few hours in the nest before fledgeing, by multiple people, and being around other bird species and vacuums and music and anything else I can think of. They don't bat an eye at anything and are very tame for it, they all come to me and sit on my hand/shoulder. I have seven at the moment with a few more on the way.

But honestly, birds are LOUD pets. A quiet finch is an unhappy finch. Mine are constantly making noise. It's really what birds do.

[Icearstorm]

Sheather

I'm aiming for chocolate/ black brown selfs with traits from both the American and Euro lines (dark face and wing color and strong belly scaling of Euro, cheek flecking and conformation of American). Selfs aren't super common here either; I'd hate to see them disappear (probably unlikely though). So I guess my main reason is that I find genetics, breeding, and documentation fascinating. I would like to continue working with this line since it's closer to what I'm looking for than if I picked up a random Euro and a random American self and went from there.

There's a bird show I'm going to the day after tomorrow; nothing is being sold as far as I know, but people there might be interested in selfs, so I could tell them about the three younger ones and explain the current situation. I wouldn't be able to bring them with me this weekend, but I might be back in town next weekend. Then if someone wants them, I'll get their contact info and they can they can have them. (I'll try to find someone who has an aviary or a bird room or something like that; the last person who got finches from me had several aviaries and years of experience with birds, so hopefully others won't be too hard to find.)
That seems like a decent compromise between keeping all birds comfortably and breeding them without risking incest. Then if Macbeth and Tacocat breed, I'll have the chance to raise the birds in the right way where they won't be freaked out by being around me and living in a place like this. I probably won't attempt breeding them for a while after that, so I'll just leave everyone together and focus more on taming and stuff for the time being.

I was used to the regular bird noise back at my old place; I guess it never met that pitch that makes me want to gouge my ears out with a spoon :/ Sometimes I wish I wasn't obsessed with birds; reptile-keeping seems like it would be easier to manage while living in a small place where you can hear everything...

[wildbird]

Icearstorm, where is the bird show and how did you find out about it? I hope you can find someone there to help with your situation.

[Icearstorm]

wildbird

I heard about it on the First Coast Finch and Softbill Society's Facebook page:

3130 Hartley Road,
Jacksonville, Florida 32257

October 27 at 9 AM
October 28 at 4 PM

Or maybe it's 9-4 both days? Nothing is officially being sold (not enough room for vendor tables), yet some people are bringing a few birds, show cages, etc to sell.

There's also supposed to be a meet and greet at the Carrabba's on San Jose Boulevard at 6:30 PM tonight, but it's RSVP only I think.