What To Do Now

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wildbird
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What To Do Now

Post by wildbird » Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:38 pm

On March 28 I was feeding my two Javas and they were both fine. Then I heard a commotion and looked over at the birds. My favorite Java had fallen to the floor of the cage and was not moving. First I thought it was a seizure, then I realized that she had suddenly died. She was alone in the cage right next to her female companion Java, was fine just a second ago and was not sick at all. The day before she got out of the cage and was loose on the screen porch. I saw her hit the screen several times before I caught her. I also had a floor fan on, but the blades were completely caged. I believe she hit her head somewhere and died of a blood clot the next day. Now here companion is all alone. I put the cage with the three Society males next to her. That helps, but I know that Javas need their own kind. I don't know whether to rehome her with someone who has Javas, preferably in an aviary, or to get another Java. There's a birdmart in Orlando Sunday, so if I should get another one, that is where I would go. I bought her there as a baby April of last year. I really think Javas are happier in an aviary though. But how could I be sure she got a good home? I keep each Java here in their own separate 30 X 18 X 18 right next to each other, as I don't trust them together. They each have the 30 inches to fly across, which isn't a lot. Just don't know what to do now.

Icearstorm
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Re: What To Do Now

Post by Icearstorm » Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:33 pm

wildbird

That sucks :/ I've never heard of birds dying from flying into screen; there's a reason a lot of zoos and aviaries use it. Although unlikely stuff happens some times.

I'm not sure I can help, but they may be proposing a law banning keeping Javas in Florida (article). So I don't know if there will be many for sale in the future. Nor do I know if it will be legal to get more later without a permit. (Though let's be honest, enforcement is really lax, so it's unlikely anyone would find out.) So that's something to think about...

Is there a room they could free-fly in? I let my birds out in my room for several hours a week (would let them out while I was out as well, but having them uncaged is technically against the rules of my apartment so I'd rather be there too). It's not too difficult to clean up with a decent vacuum and some white vinegar. They seem to enjoy flying around more, and don't get themselves into trouble.

There's really no way you can be completely sure the birds are being treated well, so it's a calculated risk. It seems safer if the person sends photos of their setup for the birds so you know where they'd be going.

wildbird
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Re: What To Do Now

Post by wildbird » Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:41 pm

Icearstorm: Thanks so much for letting me know about the possibility of that new law. This is shocking to me! There are no wild Javas in Florida. I heard a few years ago that there were some in Miami at one time, but they quickly died off. If they ban them like California, then no one can have them. How long will it be before the government decides to ban ownership of all birds? I wonder if this is why they require the sellers at the bird marts to get your name and address and the type of bird you bought. I've seen officials checking the vendors at the Orlando show before. I've seen robins and doves hit the screen many times, they bounce off and seem ok. It's possible that she hit it and fell to the concrete floor and hit her head. I don't know. It was maybe five minutes before I discovered she was out. The door the seed cup was in did not completely close and she got under it. That's the only thing that I can think of that could have happened. Whatever it was, it killed her instantly. She was pretty and tame for not being a handfed. She would nibble on my hand and I would have to push her away to change the cups. Only two and a half years old. I have had bad experiences in the past with rehoming birds, and things aren't always as you think they will be. That is why I don't raise them. Very hard to make these decisions.

Icearstorm
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Re: What To Do Now

Post by Icearstorm » Wed Apr 10, 2019 9:51 am

wildbird

I expect the parrot people will start flipping out if laws were proposed banning all exotic birds. There seem to be more hookbill owners that are involved than finch owners from what I've seen. Maybe because people are more likely to consider parrots a member of the family than finches. But public opinions of bird-keepers are generally negative, so I wouldn't be surprised if the general public did not care what laws regarding bird ownership was passed.

Poor bird... I've heard Javas are generally less fearful and a lot easier to tame than other finches. I kind of wish I still had a couple.

wildbird
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Re: What To Do Now

Post by wildbird » Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:14 pm

Icearstorm, yes there are more hookbill people. I don't know why. They are more expensive, noisy and many outlive their owners. I wonder what can be done to fight this. Most people don't even know their considering it, and then all of a sudden, it's a law. Apparently, lawmakers have nothing useful to do. Javas are usually easier to tame than other finches. I had a handfed one and when he got loose, he just flew on top of my head and I picked him up. Very tame and easy to medicate too. They are easy to train, and will do what you want if the they know what you want them to do. They listen when you talk to them. They are nice birds, but I do think they should be in an aviary or fly free at times.

Dave
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Re: What To Do Now

Post by Dave » Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:39 pm

Icearstorm, is public opinion of bird ownership really negative? Do you know where that statement came from?
Dave

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Dave
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Re: What To Do Now

Post by Dave » Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:45 pm

wildbird, I like Java finches, too. At one time they were a very popular pet bird.

But I also understand that we don't need another non-native species in our environment. The world is full of species that are OK in their native area, and run rampant when introduced to other lands.

For instance, Starlings, and English Sparrows in the U.S.

To say nothing of insects that have gotten a start here and we can't control: gypsy moth, Japanese beetles, Emerald ash borer etc.

Scientists and government officials have learned to be ultra cautious about foreign animals and insects.
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wildbird
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Re: What To Do Now

Post by wildbird » Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:32 pm

Too bad they don't seem to be worried about foreign people as in illegal immigrants!

Icearstorm
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Re: What To Do Now

Post by Icearstorm » Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:08 pm

wildbird

I think it's because hookbills regularly strongly bond to one person and some can talk. Hookbills also seem to be known as more trainable and intelligent, and other bird pets that would also meet these requirements are illegal without permits (ravens) and/or are rare as pets (mynas and starlings).

Aw, yeah they sound like good pets. Instead I have societies, which just like to shriek at me when I move suddenly or don't give them veggies on time...

paul-inAZ
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Re: What To Do Now

Post by paul-inAZ » Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:13 pm

Wildbird:
Relax... 99% of the things we worry about never happen.

Icearstorm
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Re: What To Do Now

Post by Icearstorm » Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:43 pm

Dave

I can't tell you the number of times I've heard "birds should be free" or "owning birds is cruel" and whatnot. And this is from your average pet owner, birdwatcher, hunter, etc. It's certainly not just PETA people that are saying this.

There are so many neglected parrots in captivity that tear their feathers out due to stress or boredom, so many birds that fly in circles all day because they've got nothing better to do, so many birds that are locked in tiny cages they can't even fly in, so many birds that are bred in poor conditions just to make an extra buck. It's getting better, but there are still a ton of bad bird owners here. And when I say bad, I'm talking about those that can't even meet those basic welfare requirements like a decent enclosure size, enough socializing, and an adequate diet. Nobody's perfect, but there is some minimum that needs to be met. Don't even get me started on how a lot of pet birds are kept in other parts of the world, or how the US conventional poultry industry is horrible.

The problem is that good bird owners can't separate themselves from the sucky ones, as we are all grouped under the label "bird keeper."


At the end of the day, everyone has to self-regulate if unregulated things are going to continue responsibly. And let's be honest, that has gone wrong so many times before. Finch-keeping isn't super profitable so it's less likely to have people who treat their animals poorly for the sake of profit, but it has definitely happened in other animal industries (conventional poultry, ball python breeding, puppy mills, etc). And there are still a lot of people that get pets on a whim and then release them when they're bored, which has resulted in some ferals becoming established. It is definitely a concern.

Although you could make the argument that no one needs exotic pets, or even pets at all, which is probably true. After all, why do most people keep pets? Yes, there are rescues and fosters, but in general, people keep pets for their own enjoyment.

Regulate pet-keeping and end up wasting money and singling out the people who have difficulty affording permits, or don't regulate it and more people may end up abusing the system. And lots of regulation can be easy to avoid, as well. There is no easy solution I can see. Let's just keep trying to educate people on how to be responsible, I guess.

wildbird
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Re: What To Do Now

Post by wildbird » Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:42 pm

Icearstorm, That is why I don't raise birds. And it is why I didn't rehome the Java I have. I'm planning on going to the Orland bird mart tomorrow and maybe get another one there for her for company. They are nice birds, but I think they belong in an aviary. When they sell at the bird marts, they don't know where they are going. Some may end up alone in a small cage. My Societies are great. They seem very happy, sing and play around all day. They don't seem to be upset when other people look at them as the Javas do. There will always be cruel people. When they're caught, they should be put away for a very long time and heavily fined.

wildbird
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Re: What To Do Now

Post by wildbird » Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:10 pm

paul-inAZ: It is the 1% that I worry about. I just returned from the Orlando bird expo and Florida Wildlife and the owners of the expo sent out emails to vendors not to bring any Java Finches to sell. There were none there.

paul-inAZ
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Re: What To Do Now

Post by paul-inAZ » Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:32 am

I can understand Florida being concerned about potential release and proliferation of a non-native species like Javas. You have a huge agricultural economy that includes a number of grain crops that birds like javas thrive on. As does California and it's rice industry -so illegal there.
Birds do sometimes escape and can establish colonies.

Javas are legal but hard to find here in AZ but we don't grow any crops that Javas could damage if any escaped.
The only feral non-native pet birds we have are large flocks of budgies in greater Phoenix. They don't harm anything.

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