Cage/housing question

[erine]

Sojourner Thanks for the info. My problem is that I'd love to get another 050 because they're super easy to maintain. But all my remaining species are pushy, ie a pair of Javas, a pair of cutthroats, a pair of zebra's and one canary in a cage by herself and one ringneck dove. So far, I haven't read anything that makes me comfortable housing any of these species together and it's a big cage to buy if pairs don't end up getting along. Does that make sense? Also, of course, the not wanting to stress anyone out or have anyone get plucked. Lots to think about!

[cindy]

I have noticed some javas do not easily take to others being housed with them...that being said it depends on the birds dispositions and whether they accept another species or their own kind. Both Javas and Zebras can be bossy and pushy, some javas are known to attack their "victim" physically, even acting out towards another java.

I have not owned cutthroats either just the Red Headed finch...they were passive but preferred a cage of their own.

[Sojourner]

erine

But you don't NEED the F50 - that's really a parrot cage. Its long enough - but it doesn't NEED to be that tall. It's ok that it is, if you've the space for it (and however many more one would need for that number of birds) - but finches are just as happy in a cage that is 18" to 24" tall as in one that is 40" tall. As long as it is LONG enough.

Here is an example of the minimum recommended cage @ 30x18x18 - and about $42, so a little cheaper on amazon than from PetCo/PetSmart.

30x18x18 breeder/flight cage

And here is what I'm getting - the cost is higher than the generic white cages, but they're much nicer cages and easily stackable - I think 3 high is the highest recommended stack for these and only 2 for the white generic cages.

Prevue Hampton 37L x 18W x 20H (stand adds an additional 20" to height) F070 double breeder with stand

Prevue Hampton 37L x 18W x 20H (no stand) F075 Stackable Double Breeder

The version with the stand I have never seen for less than $150, but the stacking version I have occasionally seen for around $100 (currently $123 on Amazon, or about $119 from a vendor other than Amazon).

I like these cages even better because they are 37" long - which is about as long a pre-built cage as you are likely to find. That doesn't cost the earth, at least.

People do stack the white generic cages (like the $42 cage listed first above) as well. They are nowhere near as sturdy as the double breeders, but they are definitely very affordable and they're not so flimsy as to be a problem if you take a little care.

One thing I like about the double breeders is that I can shoo the birds into the one side, put in the divider, and then clean the other side at my leisure. I'm sure this has all sorts of nice consequences if you're breeding as well, which I'm sure is why they're made this way, LOL! But I don't breed - my mother was a breeder, but not me. So I won't pretend to know what those are.

HOWEVER, you can also turn your F50 into a birdy apartment by making a new "cage bottom"/refuse collector and suspending it in the middle of the cage. So there would be an "upstairs" apartment and a "downstairs" apartment - hence doubling that cage's capacity (for finches at any rate). Prevue very thoughtfully provided both an upper and lower door so you can access each half of the cage separately. There are instructions and suggestions for how to do that in several posts under the Housing forum, if you are interested.

Doves need a taller cage, but all of your finches would be happy in a 30x18x18 cage with 2 birds per cage. With societies - who get along, because not all societies get along with each other, though your chances are pretty good that they will - you could keep 4 in a cage that size, or even 6 if they're a particularly well-balanced group. Personally I think 6 is too many even if they are getting along, but it's possible with the right group of Societies.

With any other finches that I know of, 2 is the right number of birds for that size cage, IMO.

Finch Cage Size Calculator

You could easily stack one of the F75s on top of the F50 - they're even the same length. You COULD stack TWO F75 cages on there, but for me, at least, at that point the top cage is too high to easily see or to deal with cleaning and maintenance.

There's also the issue of balance and stability - one F75 on top of an F50 already butts up against the 3-high stacking recommendation for the F70/F75 cages, given that the F50 is essentially as high as 2 F75s.

Those F50 cages go on sale on Amazon fairly frequently, so if you're into the idea of building the better birdy apartment, that's a pretty affordable way to go with the sturdier cages. Just a thought.

My dream is to figure out an easy and safe way to attach 2 of the F70/F75 cages together end to end - giving me a cage with 6' of flight space. The thing is, once you go that long, I would feel better if the cage were taller. If I were going to attempt such a thing I'd probably try it with 2 F50s. A 6' long cage that is only 20" tall seems more like a tunnel than a proper cage, LOL! But I could be wrong, maybe it would be fine.

From diagrams and the parts list, though, it doesn't look like something that would be easy to do without having to make some extra custom pieces, with either type of cage.

[erine]

Sojourner Now I have so many ideas here that my head is spinning! Each of my pairs is housed in a cage that's long enough to house them. I'd never put more that 4 birds in the 050 and I'd keep nests out. My goal was to be able to reduce the number of cages I clean by one and put 4 birds into a new 050 because it's so easy to clean. And I think I'd like the look of 2 050s together. All my birds are in the living room so I like the idea the cages as furniture. However, I just don't want to risk putting my javas and Cutthroats together because what if it didn't work? And I've thought hard about putting my javas with my dove but that makes me nervous, too. And my zebras I bought because they were being plucked to death at petsmart so I'm thinking they'll always be by themselves. So, I don't think that my problem is solvable with the pairs I have. Now, I'd consider 040 (I think that's the one) if I thought my dove and canary could be housed together....

[erine]

Sojourner I just read the post on how to divide the flight cages in 2. Now I get it. And now my head is spinning. I could put Javas on top, cutthroats on the bottom, and I think it would be easier to clean...

[cindy]

what flight do you have... this is the prevue flight divided in two the trays filts snuggly resting on the cross barsto create the top flooring.

[cindy]

this is an HQ cage divided in two

[erine]

cindy I have the Prevue 050 and was thinking about getting another one and dividing it top to bottom. How does the tray attach in the middle? Did you drill holes and attach? Do you have 2 trays? Thanks.

[Sojourner]

erine

I have read that a cage 24" x 24" (W x L) is the right size for one canary, but my feeling on the matter is that that cage is too small for a canary to get much wing space. Canaries are much larger than finches and have the same habits - a long cage is better than a tall one because they are flyers, not climbers (like hookbills, parrots, cockatiels, etc)

Personally I would prefer a longer cage, and probably wider as well if possible, to accomodate their greater wingspan and need to fly. But, I think you said you had a 25x25x25 cage? The canary would at least tolerate that pretty well, and lots of people do keep them in that size cage (I mean people who probably ought to know what they are doing, not casual pet store shoppers).

Keep in mind canaries prefer to bunk alone in anything smaller than an actual aviary (did I say this already??? I thought I had, but not in this message, apparently, LOL!)

So I wouldn't try to bunk the canary and the dove together in ANY cage. But maybe that's just me?

The dove is a bit of a problem. Doves also need flight space - even more than a canary. I don't think they need a lot of height, but probably more than a finch. Doves are generally kept in cockatiel cages like the F050 (the one you have). They might do well in the F070/F075 - 37L x 18W x 20H. IF that is tall enough. But it may not be wide enough either, with their greater wingspan I would think that 24" would be better as a minimum width.

I have seen it said that doves will manage in smaller cages IF they have free flight time regularly during the day. Personally I don't let my birds fly around loose, so I would certainly understand if you were reluctant to allow that. I'm really not sure what the best solution (outside of an actual aviary) would be for the dove, but putting it in with the canary in any of the cages we've talked about would not be a preferred solution. I think it needs its own large-ish cage.

Yeah, the idea of birdy apartments is pretty cool, isn't it? My take on the issue of the refuse tray is that it should be double-layered - one layer that holds up the actual refuse tray and is not removed, this acts as a barrier between top and bottom even when you are cleaning the cage:

And a second tray that sits on top of the permanent barrier that is flexible so you can roll it up and remove and clean it. I believe the best material for that is probably some version of the plastic carpet protector stuff that comes on rolls at the hardware store. There are instructions for how to cut and form the stuff to make a refuse tray, if you haven't found that already let me know and I'll try to dig it up. I PROBABLY have it bookmarked.

I think most people just put in one non-removable tray though, and then they vacuum it out with a mini-vacuum instead of trying to remove and dump it separately.

Thing is, I have limited use of one arm, so trying to clean the cage through the door (and not let birdies escape) is rather a challenge for me, thus the idea of the double-floor for the upper half of the cage so I can just remove it and deal with it that way. I'd still have to eventually clean up the bottom layer, but not nearly as often as if it were the only layer.

This is also why I am so fond of the F070/F075, because I can clean half the cage at a time by boxing the birds into one side using the divider. That gives me all the time I need with 0% chance that they will escape past me, LOL!

I actually just ordered the F75, the one with no stand. I will set it on one of my wire shelves (2x4 so plenty of space for the cage).

Added bonus - I have large black plant trays that fit exactly on these shelves, they are something like 21" wide so they fit between the posts of the 2x4 shelves. You lose an inch on both dimensions at either end because the poles take up about an inch of space both ways.

These trays are just slightly under 4' long, like by an inch or so. About 2 or 3" deep. This makes an EXCELLENT seed catcher for the cage, which is 3' long and about 18" wide (so the cage will fit easily and well into the tray). I'm finding that this catches the vast majority of scattered seed, so much less and easier cleanup!

[erine]

Sojourner I have appropriate cages for the canary and the dove and they are each housed separately. I wouldn't really consider putting them together. The dove is actually a rescue that someone released and I wish I could provide her a companion but I don't have the space for 2 doves. But, splitting the 040 into two does solve my cuttthroat/java problem. I can see, though, how it might be a challenge to clean with limited use of an arm.

[Sojourner]

cindy - re the divided Prevue F050 - is that a spare refuse drawer, like the one that comes with the cage? Or where did you source that tray for the upper apartment?

I just realized, too, you can keep a slightly smaller cage on that bottom shelf - assuming there are no toddlers, cats, dogs, ferrets, or other critters running about loose at any time. A full size F075 probably wouldn't quite fit on the bottom there, but a 30x18x18 would fit, if there is at least 18" of height between the shelf and the bottom of the upper cage. Might be close on the vertical height there, I don't actually have that cage so I'm not sure what that spacing is.

[cindy]

cindy - re the divided Prevue F050 - is that a spare refuse drawer, like the one that comes with the cage? Or where did you source that tray for the upper apartment?

I just realized, too, you can keep a slightly smaller cage on that bottom shelf - assuming there are no toddlers, cats, dogs, ferrets, or other critters running about loose at any time. A full size F075 probably wouldn't quite fit on the bottom there, but a 30x18x18 would fit, if there is at least 18" of height between the shelf and the bottom of the upper cage. Might be close on the vertical height there, I don't actually have that cage so I'm not sure what that spacing is.

The prevue tray fits snuggly on top of thecross bars. I line the tray with several layers of paper. The bottom you can add a tray on top of the grate lined with paper. I have various size extra trays.

The HQ cage, lower shelf will comfortable fit a 24x16 cage if slipped in from the size, It does not allow for a 30x18 cage to fit through.

[Sojourner]

Cindy - I can see the height restriction, I figured that might be too tight to allow an 18" tall cage there.

But why the limit to a 24" length? The F050 is 37" on that dimension, a 30" long cage should fit. Though I don't know of any that are only 16" high, so its probably sort of moot.

I guess you could still fit a smaller quarantine cage down there, but most likely I'd end up using that shelf to hold bird supplies since you can't get a full-size finch cage down there - unless you build it to fit, LOL!

Where do you get your extra trays? Being able to just slide one in there that fits perfectly is sure a lot easier than any scheme I've come up with, LOL!

[Sojourner]

cindy - OMG, I just realized that what you were saying to do was to put the tray that comes WITH the cage up top, and use the grate on bottom to support some other type of tray.

Sorry. I'm dense sometimes.