Heating Necessary?

[adamfromsubway]

I have been keeping small hookbills since I was a kid and have been very successful with them. I recently lost my last cockatiel after many happy years together and considering trying something new. I've decided to work toward keeping Lady Gouldian Finches as they are rare in my area and so beautiful and different than what I'm used to. I am pretty confident I will be able to care for them easily as I used to work in a fish and bird store years ago but my biggest concern is that I just bought a 100 year old house and sometimes it's a little drafty here in southern Oregon. I could get a heat light and set it to a timer but I'm wondering how necessary it is and what happens during the night? Would I need a night heat light as well as a day heat light? Also, I got the Prevue Hendryx Pet Products Wrought Iron Flight Cage in the XL size. I found the birds per cage formulator on this forum and it said I should have 2-3 birds max in this cage. Do you think this cage is big enough for 4 or should I stick closely to the formula provided here? Thanks in advance for the advice!

[Barbara]

adamfromsubway hello from MA and sorry for the loss of your cockatiel and much luck on your choice of gouldians,My experience with gouldians has been different then other members ,so this is just from my experience if you do want gouldians I would advise you to a pair (male and female) only.or two females (only) not two males not so much because of the size of the cage , but the gouldian's,Don't forget to post pictures everyone loves pictures.

[Sojourner]

adamfromsubway

I am familiar with that cage and with the cage calculator. IMHO that cage calculator is heavily biased towards breeding situations and fails to give height an adequate consideration.

Yes, finches need side-to-side space for flight, but they can and will use the height of a cage too.

I would have no problem putting 8 to 10 societies in that cage, or 6 to 8 zebras. Higher numbers obviously a bit riskier with the zebras but it would be possible with a compatible flock. You are more likely to have to sort things with Zebras than Societies.

Gouldians - not so sure about their temperament. I thought they were fairly peaceable birds, at least when NOT breeding, but I've never kept any or been around any.

But - given we are NOT talking about a breeding situation (in which case I would recommend one F070/F075 per mating pair) for sure you are going to be able to get more than just 2 or 3 birds in there. Four for sure, probably even 6 in that cage.

In support of my estimation here are some other people who actually DO have Gouldians:

See Sally's post, #2 in this thread - http://www.finchforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1728

In this thread they are talking about the smaller F040 and people are still keeping 6 to 8 Gouldians in these. Non-breeding of course.

http://www.finchforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=27920

Just be sure to strategically place food and water so that they have to travel up and down as well as horizontally. Also, make sure you have at least one water source (I recommend silos for oh-so-many reasons) for each pair.

For their staple seed and any treat cups I would start with one per each 3 to 4 birds (go up if there is squabbling). I would put in 2 each of cuttlebone, mineral mix (I use ABBA) and a (pre-scored so finchly beaks can use it) mineral block. The last is too hard for finchly beaks unless you break off the corners and score into it, but my guys DO use it if slowly. Nowhere near as fast as my budgies, but definitely they go at it. I also keep crushed egg shell in the cage at all times. Yes, I go nuts with the calcium sources, having lost a hen to egg-binding despite the total lack of a male in the HOUSE, let alone the cage. Anyway even though there shouldn't be fights over calcium sources I'm hypersensitive enough to the issue to think that its better safe than sorry, so double each source to be sure.

When you decorate the cage, keep the center open. I see a lot of large cages that are essentially useless as flight cages because every flight path is blocked by toys, perches, and fake greenery. Keep perches along the side short. Put long perches across the cage at different heights only at the ends of the cage. Leave the middle open so they can FLY!

And unless you INTEND to mate, do not put anything even remotely resembling a nest anywhere in the cage. That includes large feed cups. Use a silo or a hopper for your staple seed and small treat cups like biscuit cups or finger cups (thumb cups if you can find them but recently those seem to have disappeared). There is a "mineral cup" sold by ABBA or GlamGouldians I aim to try to replace the lost thumb cups, its about an inch or so in diameter so hopefully too small to lay an egg in.

I have, btw, seen one of my hens lay an egg in the "egg" cups intended for whole eggs. So - anything REMOTELY like a nest, like I said, LOL!

The equation changes entirely if you intend to breed them.

As for drafty old houses - unless you're letting it get below 60F, its not the temperature that is an issue so much as the drafts. Just don't place the cage in a draft and cover the backs and sides with a sheet or similar. You need to do that anyway (along the back at least) to keep the walls clean anyway. But hanging it along 3 sides like that will cut off most of the drafts and you can work with just keeping drafts from blowing directly in the front then.

Hope that helps.

[adamfromsubway]

Thanks for all the great info!! I don't think it will get below 60 in the house so maybe a heat light isn't necessary. I am very observant so I should be able to tell if the birds are uncomfortable. I'm pleased to hear I should be able to have 4 birds in this cage. I'm not getting them for the purpose to breed but in the years to come I may consider different arrangements to accommodate that. Do they need anything to occupy themselves with? I'm used to hookbills needing toys and chewables.

[lovezebs]

adamfromsubway

In my opinion, you should be more than fine with four birds, or six if you like.

You could get an all male flight, all female flight, or three couples if you wish.

Gouldians, are a peaceful species, and generally get along well together. The males will group together and sing to each other every afternoon and evening.

Regarding how to keep them occupied...
Finches, are not really interested in toys like hookbills. They do however enjoy swings, and like to play around in artificial greenery ($ store vines and flowers etc.) So you can decorate your flight , offering them private little nooks and corners .

In regards to heating:
Drafts are a Gouldian's enemy, so you will have to either find an area without drafts, or create such an area for them.

A warm light over the flight is appreciated greatly by all birds. It offers light, and warmth for them to bask under. Also some natural sunlight is very beneficial.

At night, I would use some other source of heat until they become acclimated to cooler temperatures (which can be done, gradually). You don't want to thrust Gouldians who have been kept in 72F degree temperatures or warmer, into much colder temperatures suddenly.

Good luck and enjoy your Gouldians, they are lovely birds.

[Sojourner]

adamfromsubway

I forgot to mention - even if you have them in front of a window or are using a "full spectrum" light - you will still need to provide them with a source of Vit D3. My preference is to use a liquid vitamin supplement and add it to their water, giving them occasional "vitamin holidays" where I don't add it. Like twice a month.

The reason for this is that window glass filters out a lot of the spectrum of light that would help them to produce their own, and the "full spectrum" bulbs have a VERY short life for the full spectrum, LOL! What I mean is that the bulbs stop emitting various wavelengths of light at various time but the bulb still glows. Without a pretty sophisticated light meter you can't really tell whether or for how long the bulb is emitting the proper wavelengths. So I go with the vitamins. I usually add 7 drops into their water silo although 8 is required according to instructions, to make up for any evaporation (because I live in the Desert). Actually are you in E or W OR? Because W OR is pretty desert-y also. Anyway.

I try to be a little careful with the vitamins (I use Oasis Vita-Drops btw) because it includes Vit A which can become toxic as it doesn't wash out like Vit C or some others, it is stored in the fat/liver. I wish they would use beta-carotene instead, which is a precursor to Vit A and is NOT toxic, but I have never found a supplement that uses that instead of the Vit A. I have also never found a Vit D3 ONLY supplement. Parsley is a source of Vit A so if your birds eat that as part of their every day greens, I would think about reducing the vitamin supplement somewhat to be on the safe side. Maybe go with 3/4ths of a dose.

My budgies recently started eating their parsley and I did briefly consider reducing their vitamin supply, but budgies drink so little water to start with I don't think its a realistic worry. Parsley is a small part of their total veggie intake anyway. Given their generally low water intake, which is even lower now they are eating "wet" foods instead of 100% dry seed, I doubt they're taking in enough to worry about.

[Dave]

Regarding temperature, I've got some Gouldians (non-breeding) in an outdoor aviary, and in the winter the temperature often goes below 32°F (0° C). There is no added heat of any sort. I don't see any ill effects. The birds have a building they can get into, so they can avoid rain and wind.

[adamfromsubway]

Thanks all for the great info!! I am the proud new owner of two LGFs and they seem to be doing great. I ended up just getting a male and female to start with. The other birds she had didn't look as quality as I would have liked. They look so small in the cage by themselves . I definitely think I will be adding to them in the future. The only Bird Store I could find with Gouldians was three hours away so they've had quite a stressful trip and are now getting acclimated to the house. I left the heater on last night just to give them some time to get used to the new house but otherwise they seem to be doing well. The female cracked a feather, as my cockatiels have done in the past, and had a little blood in her box and on her wing. I think she'll be ok though. I'm just going to keep a close eye on her. I appreciate all your advice and thanks for welcoming me to the forum!

[lovezebs]

adamfromsubway

You're welcome, and congratulations

Hope your girl does well.
Yes, three hours is a long time in a regular Pet Shop travel box.

I will usually use a small travel cage with some spray millet, and a small water tube, if I know that it will take me a while to get home (just some info for your next trip ).

What colors are the new feather babies?
Any pictures yet?