Bright lights over cages-questions

[Gracie85]

We found some four foot long, two-bulb, fluorescent lights (bulb and fixtures) on clearance at the local supply store for only $20 each! The ratings on these lamps is 6500K, and they are labelled "Grow Lights", with "daylight bulbs, comparable to natural sunlight" and picture of tomato plants on it, so we guessed they probably have a pretty good CRI (it was not listed).

I know these are going to be very very bright compared to most available lights (also got a 36" LED at 4000K and CRI 84, and that things is BRIGHT compared to anything we've ever been able to find before).

How high above the cages should we position these lamps? in the past, with lesser fluorescents and LEDs, we've just laid it right on the top of the cage, most of the cages are 36" high, a few are 18". Will that be okay, or because these are so bright, should we hang them above the cage, and at what distance?

[paul-inAZ]

Donno what kind of birds you have but I have used 4 foot fluorescents with some of my finches. I've just laid the fixture on top of the cages and it seems bright but doesn't bother the birds.
Daylight balanced bulbs do let you see the colors most accurately.

If you have hook bills or birds that are apt to chew things make sure the wires are not within their reach.

[lovezebs]

Gracie85

Debbie has a good article at the bottom of her posts.... let's see if I can find it for you.

http://www.naturallighting.com/cart/sto ... sc_page=56

https://mickaboo.org/confluence/downloa ... ummary.pdf

Found them.

I hope these will be helpful.

[Gracie85]

It doesn't really tell me what I need to know.

I suffer from low vision, reading is difficult. A thorough read of one long article will wipe me out for that day, or I'd be researching for my answer myself.

Different sources are giving different ranges of degrees K, and one of Debbie's articles mentions the brightness decreasing as the square of the distance change, but it doesn't give what that translates into in terms of brightness to the birds if you are starting with a very bright light like these 6500K ones I found.

Looking up the sun's brightness, I am finding different values, also, than what that second article mentions for sunlight.

[paul-inAZ]

I agree with you. The article is too long and too technical. You don't need a course is optical physics to put light on your birds.

Go to one of the big box stores. The cheapest fixtures are sold as "shop lights" but there are others on display. They take either 2 foot or 4 foot bulbs. Buy daylight bulbs [6500K], get a timer and plug it in. Don't sweat the details.

The 6500K refers to the color temperature and not the brightness. 6500K is a reasonable approximation of normal daylight. A 4000K light would be called warm white for it's yellowish tone.

[Gracie85]

Thanks, Paul paul-inAZ. But how high above the cages should I put these lights?
They are indeed 6500K. Best estimate of the CRI I can find is that it is probably 85.

We got a separate 3 foot long LED light that is 4000K with CRI 82.
I have stacked flight cages, the big 5' long ones (5' heavy flight on bottom, 36"x5 ft lightweight cages on top), and we use a layer of that wire diy shelving to raise the top cages off of the bottom one, so needed a slimline light to slide under the shelving layer to light the bottom cage. This new light, 4000K, is SO BRIGHT!!! I am shocked to realize how worn out the older lights we are replacing are, even those that are the real Avitech fixtures and bulbs (and some of the bulbs are not that old, but the fixtures are starting to fail, so in the interest of not burning the house down, they gotta go.)

I can't imagine how bright the 6500K ones are going to be, and it just seems like I will fry my little finches if I just lay them on top of the cages. But laying them on top would be quick an easy. Building some sort of support to hold them up higher is going to take time. The room has a vaulted ceiling, so not at all easy to get that high up to hang them, we figure on building some sort of frame to suspend them higher if needed.

[paul-inAZ]

6500K has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with brightness. It is an indicator of how 'warm' [yellow] or 'cold' [blue] the light appears and therefore the apparent coloration added to the object being viewed.
6500K basically = normal daylight.

CRI is an index of how "natural' the light is. Loosely related to the K value.
Ignore it.

I just lay the fixture right on the cage tops. Has worked well for me for many years.
If you are worried about frying the finches simply don't add any light but remember that 99% of the things we worry about never happen.. Then again they may like the light brightness as it approximates the sunlight outside in the wild.

[marymac]

Gracie85

Hi Gracie! Here's an abbreviated version from the Mikaboo article!
Please note he warns not to go over 5700 K!!!

PROPER COLOR SPECTRUM
The ideal CRI (Color Rendering Index) is 100, which is the spectrum of the midday sun. Since humans
cannot detect CRI over about 85, bulbs labeled full-spectrum are often no better than 85 CRI. For birds,
the CRI should ideally be 93 or above, if possible.

APPROPRIATE COLOR TEMPERATURE
5000 K (Kelvin) is perfect, up to 5700 K is acceptable. Avoid bulbs that are 5900 K! The temperature will
be too actinic and could lead to molting problems and feather destructive behavior. Avoid temperature
below 5000 K, which is too red and can lead to egg laying and aggression.

MOUNTING LOCATION AND DISTANCE
To mimic sunlight, place the brightest lights above the cage and to the side, not directly overhead.
Placement is critical to proper lighting. Mount or hang lights several feet from the cage, preferably
mounted on the ceiling, wall, or at the juncture of the ceiling and wall.

ADEQUATE BRIGHTNESS
Try to provide 400 lux as a minimum, 1000 lux or more is preferable. It is highly unlikely that your setup
will be too bright. 10,000 lux, which would be nearly impossible to simulate, is acceptable. However, also
provide an area that is shielded from light, by hanging a towel over a corner of the cage or placing a large
(bird-safe) floor-plant behind it.

[Dave]

As Paul said, just put it on top of the cage and you and the birds will be happy. Full sunlight in June (northern hemisphere) is multiple times brighter than anything you can get with a fluorescent fixture.

Our eyes aren't good at judging how bright a light is, because our eyes adjust to brightness. Indoors, 10 foot candles can seem quite bright to us; a full-sun day in summer is thousands of foot candles.

When we grow seedlings using fluorescent light, the bulbs need to be just about on top of the seedlings, and even that is a poor substitute for the outdoors.

[Sally]

I used some reptile lights once, they were 6500K, and I found that my finches started having feather problems. Feathers looked scraggly, birds looked scraggly, rough-looking feathers. Changed lights to 5500K, and feathers returned to normal with next molt. 6500K is great for reptiles but not so wonderful for our finches, I think.

[Gracie85]

Don't reptile bulbs generally have much more UV wavelengths to them than other-use bulbs?

[debbie276]

Our companion birds do best under the color temperature of the sun (as experienced on earth), which is 5000 K in the tropical latitudes. Color temperatures lower than this (more red) can lead to breeding behavior, while higher color temperatures (more blue) have been shown to produce more stress and feather destruction. For tropical birds, look for a light that has a temperature of at least 5000 K and not more than 5700 K.

Most reptile bulbs start at 6500K
Color temperature - nothing to do with heat, but rather the color from 'warm' red to 'cold' blue expressed in degrees Kelvin. In a desert, the color temperature can reach 6,500 K.

Grow lights for plants start are typically 6500K
Colors above 5000K are known as cool colors (blue) and closely resemble natural sunlight. Colors below 3,000K are known an warm colors (red). The spectrum of light is important to horticulture because each spectrum triggers different responses from the plants—blue light induces vegetative growth, red light induces flowering. This in turn plays into which type of lighting rig you'll use and when—

[wildbird]

I read somewhere not to use shop lights for birds. I believe it was a coating on them that killed birds. Also, birds are not plants or reptiles.

[Sheather]

I used shoplights for years on top of cages and my birds were ok!

[debbie276]

I read somewhere not to use shop lights for birds. I believe it was a coating on them that killed birds. Also, birds are not plants or reptiles.

Never heard that before though the flicker rate matters:
PROPER FLICKER RATE
Flicker perception is the speed at which a flickering light appears continuous. Human flicker rate maxes
out at about 50 flashes per second. So, for humans, a light with more than 50 flashes per second looks
continuous. However, birds can detect flicker rates exceeding 100 flashes per second. A light with a low
flicker rate, in which your bird can see the flashes, will be annoying, if not seriously stressful. To avoid
this, use proper fixtures with electronic ballasts and NEVER put fluorescent lights of any kind on a
dimmer. They dim by changing the flicker rate!