Ceramic Heaters and Thermostatic Control

[Jon Darling]

Seasons greetings to all,

Sorry to make my first post so technical but I'm planning to use a ceramic heating element to keep my birds warm at night. (these emit radiant infrared heat but no light). To control these can I simply put in a dimmer switch, and does this reduce the radiant (95%+) efficiency? Do I have to fork out for a temp. sensor and control unit to toggle the element on and off? I realise that I could just move the 'light' further away from the birds, but I was hoping to save a little on my power bill (50c a night @250w for 12hrs=180 buckeroos a year).

Incidently, I built two incandescent bulb powered warm boxes that were outrightly shunned, despite treats and big entrance openings. The first was too small but the second (30x16x16") seemed fine but even my Zebras wouldn't go near it. Why?. Too light and bright at night? Not cold enough outside @35degF? Anyway I found ceramic elements at $8 (not $35 like I thought they were) and so the whole enlosure prob is moot, but I'm curious to know what their problem was.

Thanks Jon Darling (Fresno CA)

[reddstagg]

Hey Jon, I dont have any experience with finchs, but have a history with reptiles and aquariums.... the problem with the ceramic heating elements is they get quite hot, you wouldnt want a bird bumping it, ive heard stories of the element heating up to 50-60*C... which is understandable if your wanting to maintain the temp at 25-30*C the heat source needs to emitt alot of heat.

I would go with a thermostat, they are pretty simple to wire up and arnt overly expensive... they would also cut down the long term running cost of the warm box as the heating element would be turned on and off to maintain the heat. Also if you maintained the temp around 10*C it wouldnt only turn on for very short periods of time. I have seen some some thermostats that are able to be confirgired to a 'turn on' temp and a 'heat to temp'.... these thermostats can be turned on at 9*C and turn off at 15*C.... so the thermostat doesnt turn on and off multiple times during the our and your temp bounces over a longer period of time.

Another important consideration ive read is making sure that surfaces dont become overheated... i imagine a bird with burnt feet wouldnt be too happy, i havnt read so far about ceramic heated elements being use in warm boxs only incandescents... but im pretty green to finches and theres probally someone knowledgable around.

I have read someone building a warm box like a heated cage, and had pop holes into open flights, this person kept the birds in the heated cage for 2 weeks with ample food and water before letting them into the flight (The heater doesnt need to be turned on during this time) they associated the cage as there primary zone even tho it was smaller, so the birds were more inclinded to roost in the warm box.

Once again... im not very experienced with birds... so hopefully someone has more practical information that might be of some use.

Cheers Dean

[Jon Darling]

Isn't the internet great?
I post some obscure technical question, and within hours I get a reply from someone in Australia passing on his expertise on ceramic infrared heaters.

Well thanks, Dean. So correct me if I'm wrong ... the heaters continue to radiate heat after they are switched off (but less so). I didn't realise that. I'm also making the assumption (making a ass out of me and..er....umption) that the temp sensor must be placed so it's radiated upon, so it might cool off quicker than your average finch. Would it be daft to wrap the sensor in an insulating material to lesson the 'toggling frequency' ? I'll experiment.

Enjoy your summertime Christmas, I was in Perth for Xmas once- 100 degrees. Santa was in speedos drinking a stubbie. Jon the Pom

[reddstagg]

I might of jumped into this without knowing what your trying to do.... what are you actually trying to heat up, have you got some plans? are you building some kind of semi enclosed area to maintain a heated tempreature in an aviary so your finchs dont freeze?

What tempreature are you trying to maintain it at?

I didnt actually mean that the ceramic element holds much heat but it will take acouple of minutes to cool off... i meant the enclosed area will retain the warmed air.

A thermostat will regulate the tempreature... without one its quite possible that the area will become overly heated (I wouldnt run a heating element without a thermostat)... you want to try and maintain a stable ambient tempreature, the radiated tempreature isnt important... its all about the ambient stable temp... these things can get extremely hot... but they are used to heat up an enclosure to a specific temp... and maintain it... they are different to basking lamps.

The thermostat trigger inside the unit is usually well insulated from surface heat on the housing. (Cheapers ones less so) i wouldnt bother with excess insulation.

You want to keep the area as warm as possible between power on and off of the heater... you dont want the heater turning on every 5 mins because a breeze has cooled the micro climate inside the area.
You want the area to maintain the tempreature... hopefully 30mins-1hour between power on and power off (So you barely use any power)... and hopefully the element is only on for about 5-10mins depending how large the area is.

The problem i have during winter with my fish tanks is that they sit at 27*C the outside temp is 12*C... so the heaters turn on and off they sit there 'bumping' the temp every 10-20mins ... these elements arn't really the best solution for outdoors... and would be much the same as my heaters... the constant turning on and off would wear them out... but they would be adequet if your capable of maintaining and insulating the warmed air inside the enclosure from the colder weather outside.

Cheers Dean

My Girlfriend is currently backpacking around London... shes jealous of the warm weather we have had... but shes glad to not be here on the recent 41*C days we had. She is hoping for a White Christmas.

[Jon Darling]

Thanks again Dean,

The thing is that my aviary is in its eary stages. I have one simple 4x8 foot enclosure, 7 foot tall. I built this last summer to give them some flight room. Inside, the 3 cubic foot warm room I added this winter, but they won't go in it, day or night. I suspected becuause it's too bright in there, despite the warmth... thus the lightless ceramic idea.

The other thing I'm not telling you is my aviary has to be portable by truck because we move a lot as we remodel houses. (We move into a crap house, ruin it even further in demolishion, then build nice bathrooms, kitchens etc. then when it's fit to live in. sell it and move to another crap house). So the aviary has to be moved about every year so I'm planning 4x8 modules, several 4x8 flights and and one 4x8 central but divided warm room with all the gear in.They'll bolt together after transporting.

The warm room I'll build next spring, so I reckon that then the problem of about coaxing them into the enclosed spaces will be solved, as the food will be served inside. . Meanwhile I'll rig up the ceramic and experiment. The birds seem to be doing alright anyway, I tell them to grin and bear it until I have time to fix them up properly.

Enough of my problems, I was checking out your neat CAD renderings, I draw plans for city code remodel permits (sometimes!), and love to meticulously plan the details (sitting comfortably in front of a computer) rather than doing any actual physical labour. Good luck to you in the search for the elusive buck. You can't always get what you want...but you get what you need.

Thanks for the knowledge, I'll post the results of my finch frying/freezing experiments and pics of the movable aviary, after it's built, if i work out how to post pics here, (as you did). Jon

[tammieb]

Hi Jon, welcome to the forum.

How cold does it get in Fresno? Your birds may not need the extra heat. If they have an area to get in out of the wind and chilly rain they will do so. I wouldn't worry overmuch about rigging up heaters and such.

[Jon Darling]

Thanks Tammie for the welcome.

Fresno gets down to about 27degF , maybe 6 days over winter. Usually it's a minimum of 36 or so. They have shelter from wind but probably not draughts. Today I'll remove the warm box top to release that wasted warm air and allow less threatening access. Will the light bother them?

On the other end of the thermometer, in summer we can be over 100degF for 30 days straight, with a max. of 110. Last summer, as an absolute rookie, I was using a spray bottle. Next summer, I must have a permanent fountain/bath device and misters. I guess a small fan wouldn't hurt. Anybody ever used a small evaporative (swamp) cooler, the extra himidity would be good. Maybe I'm nuts, but a small a/c unit in the 'warm' room for the hottest days, seems not unreasonable, although it would dry the air. We are going for a tropical rainforest climate, are we not?

Isn't is surprising how far we'll go to keep our critters comfortable. I've read of flights with music. I'll 'one up' that with a a/c TV room with little couches, a wet bar and fridge. Maybe then they'll use it.

Jon Darling

[tammieb]

Do you have photos of your aviary? Perhaps if we could see your setup we could make more helpful suggestions.

I don't have an outdoor aviary, mine's indoors, but I do know they won't fly into a dark area if they can avoid it. So no, I wouldn't think the light is what's keeping them out.

As for dealing with the heat. I always thought an easy way to provide a cool mist would be one of those soaker hoses. Lay it on the floor or suspend it up higher in the avairy. You can cut them to fit whatever length you need. You could even connect a timer to the hose.