Boxing day sale cage!

Thalia · Post by **Thalia** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 4:07 pm

Woo Hoo! So I looked online at the different petstores around and found that one was having a 30% off sale on it's cages SO I got Alfred a new home! It's 25 x 13, althought I wish it were a little wider it's SO nice and long for him... I also caved and got him a friend, they said she's a girl so I'm trying to think of a good girl name, she's really pretty, I think she might be a silver, but I'm not sure. Any name suggestions would be appreciated. So I have to keep them in different cages for 15 days so the store warrantee on her will be valid but I've put Alfred in the same room, they haven't been talking yet but I hope they will. I also put a nest in the cage so if they do decide to mate they have somewhere to lay the eggs, Alfred's been through 3 cagemates, 2 were female and his previous owners figure they died of being egg bound b/c they wouldn't give them a nest. I can't wait for the 15 day period to be over so they can live happily together! Will she be ok without cuttle bone for 15 days or should I go buy her one? I have a fairly new one in with Alfred that I was going to put in with her once they move in together.
Here's some pics!
new cage:
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o265 ... G_0110.jpg
Alfred's new cagemate:
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o265 ... G_0091.jpg

tammieb · Post by **tammieb** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 4:25 pm

You have what appears to be a CFW (Chestnut Flanked White) hen.
As for the cuttlebone... you can scrape some of it onto her eggfood until you can get another or subsitute the shells from the chicken eggs. After you've boiled the eggs, crush the shell up into tiny pieces and give that to her in a treat cup or sprinkle some on the eggfood.

I'm sure Alfred will be singing to her shortly. Then you won't be able to shut the lil' guy up. ;)

Thalia · Post by **Thalia** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 4:32 pm

lol actually as soon as I posted this I hit submit and he started singing to her, she sang back too which was nice. He's tried to woo her a few more times but she's playing coy

I'm a little worried that she's not exploring her cage more but hopefully she'll settle down and be ok. Alfred seems pretty happy with himself. Oh, how important is grit? Right now Alfred's got all the extra cups in his cage so my new female has no grit cup and no treat cup. I was going to take the grit cup and empty it and use it as a temporary treat cup for her. I don't really want to sprinkle grit on the bottom of the cage, but I will temporarily if she really can't live without it for 2 weeks.

tammieb · Post by **tammieb** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 4:59 pm

There is some debate on the need for grit. I personally don't feel it is necessary as finches hull their seed so they don't require grit for digestion. And if I did provide grit, I would not sprinkle it on the floor of the cage with the bird poo. =]

Egg shells, oyster shell and/or cuttlebone are important. So I would take one of the treat cups from Alfred's cage and place in the hen's cage.

Thalia · Post by **Thalia** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 10:15 pm

okee dokee, I Alfred hardly picks at his grit anyways. I'll empty his grit cup and put in some egg food tomorrow morning for her then. I'll steal her seed cup and scrape some of Alfred's cuttlebone into it too

Apparently she's been singing and eating and drinking tonight while I was at work so I'm happy about that, I was worried she might not find everything. He's all excited and hopping around his cage beeping at her, he's so cute! He's been singing his little heart out all evening too (I missed it while I was at work though), he's totally smittend it's SO cute

btw what colour would you call him? fawn? I want to guesstimate what kind of babies they'd have if they breed and have babies... I don't know if I'd have the heart to take the eggs away from them.

tammieb · Post by **tammieb** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 10:38 pm

Yeah, I'm sure Alfred is very happy to hear a reply to his chirping. Poor lil' guy has been through alot, he deserves to have a friend to cuddle up with.

If you don't want to deal with unwanted chicks then don't give them a nest. They don't require a nest for sleeping. And Alfred should be given time to rest up and recoupe before breeding. Raising babies is very hard on them. I would take the nest out til he is completely recovered. I would wait til his feathers have regrown before allowing them to breed.

As for Alfred, he's a normal Gray

This is what you would see in the wild in Au.

Go here for photos and discriptions of the various mutations... http://www.efinch.com/varieties.htm

Your hen being a CFW,

could give you some interesting chicks as the CFW gene is sex linked. So you could possible get male CFW chicks from this pairing.

Male CFW

Thalia · Post by **Thalia** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 10:59 pm

really? I thought Alfred was lighter than normal, I saw a male zebra at the pet store today and he was really dark, maybe he was a dark mutation, interesting. I put the nest in b/c Alfred's lost 2 females before probably due to egg binding, and I'm worried that that will happen again. Hopefully this 2 week quarantine period will give him enough time to recoup. He's been preening SO much today! making himself pretty for the missus I guess lol. His body condition is actually quite good considering all he's been through, my guess is it's partly b/c of the tiny cage he inhabits, but he's much chubbier than the little female is. He also wasn't bony when I was handling him to do his eye cleaning, so hopefully the only recoup needed will be to grow back his feathers, and gain some muscle tone to fly around the enormous new cage. Poor guy's going to have so much room he won't know what to do with it!

Post by **Hilary** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 11:16 pm

Thalia -

The binding wasn't caused by having/not having a nest - the hens probably weren't given enough calcium in their diets. That's why the shaved cuttlebone, ground eggshell and/or oyster shell is so important. Without a nest she'll lay eggs and they'll just drop to the floor of the cage, while with a nest (once they're together) she'll lay eggs in the nest and will able to incubate and hatch out the little ones. Either way, she'll lay. Just make sure she has the calcium she needs so she'll continue to be healthy and can keep Alfred company for a long time to come!

Hilary

tammieb · Post by **tammieb** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 11:21 pm

Please note how Alfred's feathers are fluffed instead of smooth like the bird in the photo. This is a sign that he's not feeling well. They fluff up their feathers to hold in heat. A healthy bird won't do that. Please don't rush into breeding. I know how exciting it is to think about lil chicks and all but it really is a drain on their system, not only the hen but the cock as well. Feeding chicks is hard work! The fact that he is preening is a good sign though, as it shows he is feeling better.

The hen will lay eggs whether they have a nest or not. Giving her a nest to lay in won't prevent her from becoming egg bound. Providing her with a calcium replacement, (cuttlebone, egg shell, oyster shell or liquid calcium in her water) is the only thing that can quard against her becoming eggbound. And even then it can still happen if she is young or past her prime.

The eggs that she lays in seed cups or drops to the bottom of the cage will not be fertile. They are like chickens in that way. Incubation has to take place before a chick will begin to form. Don't feel guilty for throwing out the unwanted eggs.

Thalia · Post by **Thalia** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 9:50 am

oh ok, so his old females died b/c they didn't have calcium supplement or were too young/old. I guess that makes sense. We always figured it was b/c they had nowhere to lay their eggs. Maybe it was from overcrowding too since they had two or 3 birds in that little 10x14 cage. I wouldn't want to rush them into breeding, I'd be perfectly happy if they never had babies, I just don't want to lose the female b/c she had no nest. I'll take out the nest when I put Alfred in if he's still looking fluffy.
I guess Alfred is fluffier than the female, he seems to be fluffy on one side more than the other though, is that normal? I know he had plucked his chest bald in the early fall and is just starting to fill in on his chest could that attribute to the chest fluffing? He doesn't seem to fluff his back it's mostly his chest and left side. He's been singing and preening a lot today again, he's so cute. Is using his feet to scratch himself a normal part of preening? I'll keep an eye on him today and if he's staying fluffy I'll put him back in our room where it's warmer, he didn't stay fluffy when he was in our room.
I gave the female a sprig of spray millet, and she's not afraid of it

hopefully she'll teach Alfred to eat from it as well. She's also beeping and singing with Alfred today. I also scraped some of Alfred's cuttle bone over her seed and gave her a little dish of egg food, which she hasn't tried yet but is thinking about. She's very hyper, hopping all over the place, hopefully it's happy hyper not stressed hyper.
excuse any spelling mistakes, I typed most of this looking over my shoulder watching the birds

tammieb · Post by **tammieb** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 2:31 pm

It sounds like you have it all covered then. Good that she likes the millet, Alfred may have never been offered it before. They are often frightened by new things but she will teach him about the millet and he will teach her about the eggfood. ;)

Yes, they will use their feet to scratch and rearrange feathers, that is completely normal. And yes, keeping that many birds in a cage that small could cause them to die sooner rather than later. Stress will shorten their lives just like people.

Finches are hyper by nature, Zebras especially. They are normally very active. If one is unusually quiet and still you will know it is ill.

Thalia · Post by **Thalia** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:09 pm

Well tomorrow Alfred can go in with Andie and I just wanted to ask a quick question. He still seems chubbier than she is. He usually looks like this: http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o265 ... odside.jpg
but when he's sleeping or resting sometimes he looks like this: http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o265 ... ymaybe.jpg
would you consider that "fluffed"? He's so active and he never shuts up, the two of them sing to eachother all day long, well she beeps and he sings. I want to put them together but I don't want to if he's still feeling poorly. I took the next out of the cage so they can't make babies though

I also wonder if his chest is supposed to jut out like that? Andie has a very different profile than Alfred. He doesn't have problems breathing, no tail pumping, so could he just be overfat from living in the little tiny cage for so long on a mixed seed diet? No exercise and fatty food made him fat?

tammieb · Post by **tammieb** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:21 pm

The photo of him resting is kinda hard to see but it appears he is just fluffed a bit as they normally do when napping/sleeping. They do this to trap warm hair in their feathers.

The bony breastbone is of concern though. Rather than it indicating an overweight bird it shows that he is UNDER weight. Normally the breastbone would not protrude like that. He should be more rounded like Andie. I would increase his seed ration and add some good quality millet and try to get him to eat as many veggies as possible. You might also think about worming him and adding a vitamin supplement to his diet if you aren't already.

Thalia · Post by **Thalia** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:40 pm

oh that's a bony breastbone? He's ALWAYS eating though... where would he pick up worms from? Could he have had them for 3 years? Wouldn't they show up in his stool? Could he maybe be under weight because of the infection and he's just slow to put it back on?
I've got him on a vitamin supplement that I mix in his seed, and he's afraid of the millet sticks, I was hoping that Andie could teach him how to eat them since she likes her millet. Should I give him more egg food? He's not a big fan, Andie loves her's eats her whole little dish of it, but Alfred prefers his seed. I tried mixed veggie baby food the other day and he picked at his, she ignored hers though, today I'm trying a little spinach but haven't seen either try it yet. Do you think it'd be too hard on him putting him in with Andie tomorrow? I was hoping she'd show him how to eat the new foods, but if he's underweight then that might not be a good idea.
Alfred eats roughly 1tbsp of seed mix a day I've got him on the Living World Premium Finch Food http://www.hagen.com/uk/birds/product.c ... 3800030101 Unfortunately though he's been ignoring the bigger bits of fruit and veggie

I give him 2 tbsp of the seed mix and put in 2 drops of the vitamin supplement, then I mix it to coat all the seeds and take out any clumps and he eats most of that in 2 days, every other day I throw out what's in his dish and make him a new serving. Does that sound like he's eating enough?
this is the vitamin supplement I'm using in his seed: http://www.petguys.com/-026851003120.html

tammieb · Post by **tammieb** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:59 pm

Here's a short article on finch parasites... http://www.finchniche.com/f-worms.mgi It's hard to say where he may have picked them up, IF he has them. It is just one thing that might be contributing to his being underweight.

Here is an article explaining "going light". This could possibly be what Alfred is experiencing. http://www.ladygouldianfinch.com/featur ... glight.mgi

As for the his diet... I would check the seed cup several times a day and blow off the hulls to make certain what you are seeing is actually seed. I'd make certain there is plenty of seed at all times so he never runs out. Zebras aren't known for being adventurous eaters, mine weren't anyway. I would go ahead and move Andie in with him and treat them both at the same time. She can teach him to eat the millet. Poor guy must never have had any cause I've never known a zeb to refuse millet!

It will take him a good while to fully recover from that infection and the stress of being ill. But he's on his way and I'm sure you will continue to provide excellent care!