Overdoing Vitamins

cntrymeadow · Post by **cntrymeadow** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 6:26 pm

I feed our zebras and societies ABBA finch seed which has vitamins etc. added.

I am hopefully getting a pair of LG's soon so I ordered a few things I needed....
one of them being Hearty Bird Vitamins/Mineral supplement

Question:
Since the ABBA seed has stuff added would it be overdoing it feeding the Hearty Bird as directed?

ABBA Seed:
Millet Seed, Canary Grass Seed, Oat Groats, Shelled Sunflower Chips, Flax Seed, Sesame Seed, Cracked Corn, Thistle Seed, Ground Mollush Shell, Kibbled Biscuits made with meals: Wheat, Corn, Oat, Rice, Barley, Soy Bean, Buckwheat, Bean; Ground: Peas, Shelled Peanuts, Egg Shell, Brazil Nuts, Cashews, Filberts, Pecans, Walnuts, Almonds, Shelled Pumpkin Seed; Water, Shredded Coconut, Whole Eggs, Bone Meal, Precooked: Fresh Beef Meat, Fresh Poultry Meat, Fresh Fish, Fresh and Dehydrated: Carrots, Dandelion, Chicory, Kale, Grapes, Bananas, Apples, Oranges, Pears, Apricots, Milk; Honey, Corn Syrup Solid, Casein, Salt, Brewers Yeast, Yellow Beta Carotene, Cod Liver Oil, Wheat Germ Oil, Dextrose, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement Niacin Supplement, Calcium Pantohenate, Choline Bitartrate, Folic Acid, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex, Pyriodoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamin Hdydrochloride, D-Biotin, Ascorbic Acid Manganese Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Ethylene Diamine Dihydriodide, Cobalt Sulfate, Magnesium Sulfate, Potassium Iodide, Calcium Carbonate, Calcium Propionate added to preserve freshness, Artificial and Natural Color and Flavor.

Hearty Bird:
Vitamin A 255,000 IU
Vitamin D3 42,000 IU
Vitamin C 2,800mg.
Vitamin E 1,100 mg.

Other Ingredients:
Vitamins
Maltodextrin
Vitamin B1
Vitamin B2
Vitamin B3
Vitamin B6
Vitamin B12
Vitamin K
Biotin
Folic Acid
Niacin Minerals
Calcium Pantothenate
Choline Bitartrate
Cobalt Chloride
Copper Gluconate
Iron Citrate
Magneseum Oxide
Manganese Sulfate
Potassium Iodide
Silicon Dioxide
Sodium Selenite
Sulfur
Zinc Sulfate

bonnies_gouldians · Post by **bonnies_gouldians** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:18 pm

I read an article in a LGF book that I bought that said seeds that have "added vitamins" arent really all they are trumped up to be because the vitamins are on the outside of the hull. Sense the birds don't eat the hull, they just spit it out, the vitamin goes with it. I think giving vitamins in the water or in food they will completely consume, like veggies, eggfood, etc, is more efficient and wouldnt be overdoing it if combined with the vitamin treated seed.

cntrymeadow · Post by **cntrymeadow** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:38 pm

Thats what I was thinking too!

So here is another vitamin question:

Since I purchased the Hearty Bird Vitamins is Feather Fast necessary for molting?
It is doubling up on the B vitamins but Feather Fast has additional stuff as well.
I dont want to over vitaminize the birds but I dont want them lacking either!

Feather Fast
Protein Concentrate 20%
Vitamin A 25,500 IU
Vitamin D3 4,200 IU
Vitamin C 2,800mg.
Vitamin E 1,100 mg.
Vitamins
Vitamin B-1
Vitamin B-2
Vitamin B-3
Vitamin B-6
Vitamin B-12
Vitamin B-K
Folic Acid
Biotin Minerals
Calcium Pantothenate
Cobalt Chloride
Choline Bitartrate
Copper Gluconate
Iron Citrate
Manganese Sulfate
Magnesium Oxide
Potassium Iodide
Silicon Dioxide
Sodium Selenite
Sulphur
Zinc Sulphate
Maltodextrin Amino Acids
Methionine
Lysine
Alanine
Arginine
Asparic Acid
Cysteine
Glutamic Acid
Glutamine
Histidine
Isoleusince
Leucine
Phenylalanine
Proline
Serine
Theonine
5-Hydroxytryptophan
Tyrosine
Valine

Hearty Bird
Vitamin A 255,000 IU
Vitamin D3 42,000 IU
Vitamin C 2,800mg.
Vitamin E 1,100 mg.

Other Ingredients:
Vitamins
Maltodextrin
Vitamin B1
Vitamin B2
Vitamin B3
Vitamin B6
Vitamin B12
Vitamin K
Biotin
Folic Acid
Niacin Minerals
Calcium Pantothenate
Choline Bitartrate
Cobalt Chloride
Copper Gluconate
Iron Citrate
Magneseum Oxide
Manganese Sulfate
Potassium Iodide
Silicon Dioxide
Sodium Selenite
Sulfur
Zinc Sulfate

cntrymeadow · Post by **cntrymeadow** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:42 pm

So then my next thinking is....
when I get brave enough I will stop buying the ABBA seed with the added vitamins and instead order individual seeds and mix my own then add the vitamins to either their fresh food or water.

Any recommendations on individual seeds that I can mix that would be suitable for zebras, societies and goulds?

sean · Post by **sean** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 5:34 pm

i don't know anything about mixing seed, but i do know that you should be careful with water based vitamins. while i personally believe that water based vitamins are probably a useful way of supplementing a bird's diet, some research has demonstrated that it can also increase bacterial level in the drinking water.

consequently, crystal (the site admin), recommends against the use of adding vitamins to a bird's drinking water.checkout the FIC for more information.

atarasi · Post by **atarasi** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 7:51 pm

The water soluable vitamin supplement I use recommends offering it for only 2 days maximum at a time. A lot of these water based vitamins contain sugar which promotes bacteria. The type I use contains no sugar.

fairestfinches · Post by **fairestfinches** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:46 pm

There was an article published in the National Finch and Softbill Society last year, I think Bob Black wrote it, and it said that about 90% of the added vitamins in coated seed are wasted when the seed is hulled.

While Hearty Bird is formulated to be added to water e prefer to add it to soft foods like egg food.

We have yet to have a finch O.D. using this method since they only get ass much of it as they want to eat.

Sean

bonnies_gouldians · Post by **bonnies_gouldians** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:21 am

silly sean typing a few too many "s's" in your words

Yes, I am acting like a child bringing that up.

atarasi · Post by **atarasi** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:26 am

cntrymeadow,

The LGF website has an Interaction Chart. It's helpful to prevent doubling up on full spectrum vitamins like Breeders Blend, Hearty Bird and Feather Fast.
It also contains useful information on medication and what can't be given at the same time.

cntrymeadow · Post by **cntrymeadow** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:40 pm

Thanks for that link Jordan..will check it out.
I do not put vitamins in the water every day plus I use the plain regular type water dishes and clean them out daily.
On to more research!

Nipper06 · Post by **Nipper06** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:57 am

I think vitamins in the seed mix - like ABBA - are fine and probably effective enough. Even though they are on the seed shells and birds spit out the shells, they still get some vitamins in their mouths that way.

I'd be more cautious with water-based vitamins (and calcium supplements). When they are in the water, the birds have no choice and could get too much, especially over time. Anything I put in the water for them, I only do a couple days a week - then clear plain water the rest of the time.

gomer · Post by **gomer** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:38 am

I coat my own seed with vitamins etc.At the manefactures rates,Some soak through the husk into the seed.And some would be taken off the husk by the tongue.I also have some available in a seperate dish.
The only thing I put in the water is virkon-s to keep the water fresh,and a little apple cider vinegar.

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