Bugs!

[Stuart whiting]

Sally when I buy me maggots I alway freeze half of them, it's so very simple, have pkt of freezer bags and bag the maggot up at 1/2 pint per bag and then freeze, it's the quickest and easiest way,

Some people recommend in pouring hot water on them first before freezing as this will obviously kill em but a lot of us have realised that all this does is scalled em and stretches em , not particularly good,

As just mentioned that the best way is to simply put em into a freezer bag as they are and freeze , everything slows down and then eventually shuts off,

Doesn't sound very nice i know but this is how most do it

Incidentally before freezing you must seive out all Maise powder, bran or sawdust because when you defrost the maggots they will just go to a horrible mush,

Always add a little Maise meal or bran once defrosted to dry and freshen back up again

[Stuart whiting]

One of the breeders I know raising Gren and various African species uses the Phoenix worms AKA maggots, she has had good luck breeding her birds.

That sounds brilliant cindy, that is the one and only reason why I use em so much,

They produce the results

[Stuart whiting]

Yes, she is using the Phoenix worms, but that can get quite expensive. $48 for 1000 plus shipping, which doesn't last long with waxbills, at least it didn't with mine. I can get 20,000 mini mealworms for less than $100, and I can keep them at that size in the fridge for quite a while.

Arh....see this is the difference between England and America,

I think that Mealworms here in England are quite dear for what the amount that we actually get, don't get me wrong we can get millions of mealworms here but at a price,

However because England is so big on the freshwater match and specialist fishing scene that maggot prices are considerably much lower in price, hence why I use the maggot and not forgetting that I've always got a lot of maggots here because I'm a experienced match angler that uses vast quantities of maggots for me fishing aswell,

I've got me own maggot and bait fridges in me shed and also now in me birdroom,

So really I've got the best of both worlds

[Sally]

Stuart, I know a very old time finch breeder, he told me many, many years ago breeders use to toss a fish head in and let flies lay eggs in it, and the birds would eat the larva as they hatch...not the most sanitary, kind of gross but that is what they did way back when....now there is so much more know about parasites and illness now, preventatives and better ways to feed.

I also mention to folks if they ask about feeding dried mealworms, mealworms have a hard exoskeleton as you mentioned, when fed live the bird typically "suck out the insides leaving the exoskeleton. When feeding dried the bird consumes the dried insides and the exoskeleton.... it is rough and sharp and can irritate the GI tract of the bird.... some folks have seen sort of a gritty splat dropping after feeding whole dried mealworms, my suggestion would be grind the dried mealworms and add them to eggfood or sprinkle over soft foods.

Mmm.....funny that you mention that cindy, I would never use dried mealworms for that very reason but I have also considered about blending them up and putting in with an egg food mix, this is something I've actually been thinking about for quite some time now

@"Stuart whiting" That is what I do with the dried mealworms, I grind them up in the blender or food processor and add them to my vitamin mix that I add to my hard-boiled eggs. Since I have mostly waxbillls, they can use that extra protein.

[cindy]

you can do it with other dried insects also

[Stuart whiting]

Stuart, I know a very old time finch breeder, he told me many, many years ago breeders use to toss a fish head in and let flies lay eggs in it, and the birds would eat the larva as they hatch...not the most sanitary, kind of gross but that is what they did way back when....now there is so much more know about parasites and illness now, preventatives and better ways to feed.

I also mention to folks if they ask about feeding dried mealworms, mealworms have a hard exoskeleton as you mentioned, when fed live the bird typically "suck out the insides leaving the exoskeleton. When feeding dried the bird consumes the dried insides and the exoskeleton.... it is rough and sharp and can irritate the GI tract of the bird.... some folks have seen sort of a gritty splat dropping after feeding whole dried mealworms, my suggestion would be grind the dried mealworms and add them to eggfood or sprinkle over soft foods.

Mmm.....funny that you mention that cindy, I would never use dried mealworms for that very reason but I have also considered about blending them up and putting in with an egg food mix, this is something I've actually been thinking about for quite some time now

@"Stuart whiting" That is what I do with the dried mealworms, I grind them up in the blender or food processor and add them to my vitamin mix that I add to my hard-boiled eggs. Since I have mostly waxbillls, they can use that extra protein.

Hi Sally,

This to me is very very interesting, just out of interest I've known that you've also got a number of waxbills and would be interested to know if you've ever bred any of your waxbills with this particular blended dried live food egg food mix.

If you've ever bred with this diet did you still supply any other live food or did you manage to rear waxbills just purely on this egg food mix and maybe some soak seed

I'm interested because I do have the recipe for Pual de Neil's egg food mix from Belgium and Pual supposedly has bred his waxbills without the use of extra live food.

I've also been very interested in the way how Doug Taylor from Beuomont, Texas feeds and rears his birds including many waxbills,

You may be familiar with this particular diet as Doug lives in your county / state,

His way of feeding is what he calls the Day green diet comprising of just egg food and fresh vegetables and doesn't supply any live food what so ever but still manages to rear waxbills, he feeds this every day throughout the whole year so his birds become used to the food,

Have you personally bred any waxbills without live food

[Sally]

Stuart whiting

Check out this thread:

http://www.finchforum.com/viewtopic.php ... s+PR%2FNLF

That's been a few years ago now, but I was really proud of those babies, because Blue-capped Cordon Bleus are so darn hard to even parent-raise, much less with no live food, and in cages, not aviaries. I've also bred Strawberries, Goldbreasts, and Red-billed Fires without live food.

I used to follow Doug Taylor's Green Day diet. The biggest problem I had with it was that there was no variety in the veggies, same old mixture day in and day out, and I personally think that variety is the spice of life!! lol I don't think Doug is around any more. My egg food now is a variation of Roy Beckham's egg food. I think everyone needs to develop their own recipe--start with one you like, and then adjust it to suit yourself. I'd like to try that Paul de Nil diet myself one day, I copied and saved it.

I will say that you usually need to be working with waxbills that are fairly domesticated, not wild-caught, though I have had wild-caughts adapt quickly to the egg food too. It is not an easy task with CBs at any time.

If you want to try a no-live-food approach, I'd say you definitely need egg food using real eggs, also soaked seed. Another thing I found that worked well with waxbills are freeze-dried bloodworms, like you find in the fish food section of pet stores. I personally like the Hikari brand. Most of my waxbills love them, though I have a few Strawberries that would rather die than eat a f/d bloodworm! lol

I also would say that you should never rely only on a no-live-food diet with waxbills. It is OK to try with some, but if you want breeding success, you should still offer live food to some of your breeding pairs, and no live food to a couple of pairs to start with.

[Stuart whiting]

Sally

Thank you Sally for your reply,

yes I have to agree with what you've said here, I know only to well how awkward the BC, BB and RC cordon bleus can be,

I read the green day diet article on dougs website a few years back and thought the same as regards to the veggies being not a lot of variety,

Yes I also think that yer right about weaning some birds onto the egg food as many often will ignore it especially the wild caught and can take a lot of time and patience,

Again I agree when you stated to also still supply live food to some of the breeding pairs aswell as pairs with just the egg food,

All very much so makes sence

Incidentally I know it's now a little late but congrats to you for the breeding of those 9 Cordon bleus, that is a fantastic achievement in anyone's book and bred in a cage environment,
Absolutely magic

[Shannylee]

Really enjoying all of the experience and knowledge being shared on this subject. I need to find a clean live food source tomorrow. My Javas looked at me like "what the heck is that crap?" when I dropped broccoli in their treat bowl today. Boiled egg + chopped spinach + ground egg shell yesterday and they barely touched it. They are sitting tight on 5 eggs so I want them to be happy.

[Stuart whiting]

Shannylee

Ohhhh.......sitting on 5 eggs hey,

You've started something now Sharon, they'll be wanting there live food now

Although it's not necessary to need live food to rear young Javas, if the parents like the live it most certainly won't do any harm and if they feed the youngsters with any live food aswell as there normal rearing food then this has surely gotta be a good thing,

Best to keep mummy, daddy Javas and baby ones happy

[Shannylee]

Stuart whiting, correction...SIX eggs. She laid another one this morning.

[Sally]

Shannylee I'm assuming your compost pile is open, so that wild birds can get to it. How about putting some hardware cloth or wire over it, so that the black soldier flies can still lay eggs in it, but the wild birds can't get to it. I'm thinking of setting up an old composter I haven't used in a long time. It has a cover, with air spaces for ventilation, so birds would be kept out. My problem is coming up with enough grass clippings, since all my lawn mowers are mulching type, returning the clippings to the lawn as I mow.

[Stuart whiting]

Shannylee woh hooo, nice one

[Stuart whiting]

Sally

Hi Sally, I'd try to put what ever grass cuttings you can in the bin and also any house hold vegetable scraps etc

[Shannylee]

Sally, it is an open compost. I covered it with hardware wire (which I, affectionately, refer to as RAZOR wire) this morning and only bled a little. Hardware wire is my nemesis! LOL! My little wild wrens spent the rest of the day trying to get in and one finally succeeded. Poor little guy was not happy! I released him, took the wire off, and bought mealworms for my javas. They like them better anyhow. I'll work on a better wren-proof compost pile.

My BSF larvae are quite happy with as many veggies scraps that I can give them. They like the grass clippings but they like watermelon rind MUCH better.