Soluvite D3 Breeder ( In the UK )

[Nerien]

There is no difference in the ingredients. Breeder is just more concentrated then Soluvite D

From the vetafarm website:

Soluvite D Breeder
Super concentrated vitamin supplement (10 times stronger than standard Soluvite D)
Directions: Add 5g to 5L of water and stir well OR Add 5g to 8kg of food and combine well.
Prepared water should not be exposed to direct sunlight; replace daily

Soluvite D
Directions:
Water - Add 4g to 400mL of clean water. (1 tsp per 1 pint)
Food - Sprinkle 1g (¼ tsp) of Soluvite D powder over 1 cup of soaked seed or greens
Prepared water should not be exposed to direct sunlight; replace daily

Do the math, you get past the deception in the directions:

The ingredients are identical.
Soluvite D Breeder is 10 times as concentrated as Soluvite D

Soluvite D Breeder-- 5g in 5L water = 1g per 1L

Soluvite D-- 4g in 400mL = 4g in 0.4L = 1g per 0.1L

Whaddya know--the amount of water you use for 1g of Sol D Breeder is 10 times as much as you use for 1g of Sol D. And Soluvite D Breeder is 10 times as concentrated as Soluvite D. Coincidence? Nope.

The solutions you get when you mix up your drinking water ARE EXACTLY THE SAME. Soluvite D Breeder is simply a stronger initial concentration so that you can make bigger batches more easily.

If the directions had said Soluvite D Breeder--use 4g in 4L water, or Soluvite D--use 5g in 500mL (which is .5L), it would be more obvious, even to those who aren't so comfortable with math.

You can use 0.5g Soluvite D Breeder in 500mL and get the correct strength solution, don't have to make 5L at a time. Just have to be careful with your measurements, easier to be off a bit when measuring smaller amounts.

Don't know what the price difference is, don't care enough to look it up, but the only way Soluvite D Breeder is better than Soluvite D is if it costs less than 10 times as much, then you are getting a deal. As long as it doesn't go bad before you use up the amount you buy.

[dutch]

Nerien....the math. ...

I myself have never compared them....I only purchased the d breeder....

But the bird breeders I spoke to....all said it took 6 months on soluvite d to see improvements. ......but breeders using d breeder saw instant results

No math......just different results

[Nerien]

No legitimate nor scientific reason for different results.

Placebo effect, probably--you get the results you think you should or want to get, because you believe you see what you believe you should.

What you put into your bird's cage is exactly the same with both versions. Marketing and packaging differences only.

The numbers don't lie. But the human brain is capable of fooling itself and others in oh so many ways.

[MiaCarter]

Well said, Nerien!
And I'm glad you did the math, as you saved me the trouble! LOL

Soluvite D Breeder was among the products I tried in desperation, as I was losing every chick. So I got this and a bunch of other supplements, as I wanted to rule out dietary/nutritional issues as the root cause.
To be honest, I saw absolutely no difference. The average number of eggs was the same and the hatch rate actually decreased by 3 (but we're only taking around 50 eggs, so I guess it's within the margin of error.) I still lost every chick. Root cause seems to be behavioral. Parents that just don't feed.

I started using it again to get Ivy and Molly Sue into breeding condition. I did get some ENORMOUS eggs; 3 of 5 fertile, which is one heck of a feat from a 12-year-old male. (The other 2 eggs were stomped and broken before I could determine fertility.)
But I have no idea whether that was just luck or due to one/all of the supplements. I've never tried to breed this couple without the supplements, so there's no way to know if large egg size and that degree of fertility is normal for them. I know that he's fertilized eggs within the last year and had a nearly 100% rate then, so.

Supplements are a bit tricky in terms of determining efficacy. It's a bit like those products that claim to reduce the length of your cold - or your money back. (!!)
It gives me a chuckle every time I see the commercial because really, how on earth are you supposed to know how long your cold would have been if you didn't use that product?
"Yes, Product X worked wonders! Without it, I was scheduled for a 6-day cold! But instead, I was sick for just 4 days!"

[dutch]

Nerien.....can you explain how numerous avian vets could not help my birds.....

But when soluvite was given all deaths....100% of deaths stopped....do the math.....

If you have never used soluvite how can you tell me it doesnt work?......

Lets do the math......soluvite added.....all deaths stopped

All eggs fertile

All chicks perfect

Nests of 8 + raised.....in 40 nests

After 2 years of 2 birds dead a month. ...adults. ....not a single chick surviving....

Add soluvite and now 40 nests of chicks.....not a single loss in 8 months!

Lets add all that up.....soluvite d breeder in my avairy is clearly working

[debbie276]

Don't know what the price difference is, don't care enough to look it up, but the only way Soluvite D Breeder is better than Soluvite D is if it costs less than 10 times as much, then you are getting a deal. As long as it doesn't go bad before you use up the amount you buy.

General web search came up with around 34 dollars for 450g of the soluvite D and 130 dollars for 500g of the soluvite D breeder. Most places only carry the D and not the breeder, probably because of the cost.

can you explain how numerous avian vets could not help my birds.....But when soluvite was given all deaths....100% of deaths stopped....

Obviously your birds needed what the soluvite D gave them that they were unable to get through their diet.

[dutch]

Soluvite d breeder

[debbie276]

dutch
I'm sure she was referring to the difference between soluvite D and soluvite D breeder, not that you got results. People that used the breeder thought it was better then the soluvite D.

[Nerien]

If you have never used soluvite how can you tell me it doesnt work?......

I didn't. The discussion was on the difference between Soluvite D and Soluvite D Breeder. And when mixed at proper concentration, there is none. Nada. Zip. Hypothesis disproved.

can you explain how numerous avian vets could not help my birds.....
But when soluvite was given all deaths....100% of deaths stopped..

Most obvious and reasonable explanation--if a multivitamin quickly and easily fixed the health and death problems, then your birds were suffering from an extremely deficient diet and/or deleterious conditions. Why your vets didn't pick up on this, I don't know. But such an extreme turn around on the addition of a simple vitamin, points very very strongly to very poor nutrition.

General web search came up with around 34 dollars for 450g of the soluvite D and 130 dollars for 500g of the soluvite D breeder. Most places only carry the D and not the breeder, probably because of the cost.

So, Sol D costs about 7-1/2 cents a gram, and Sol D Breeder costs about 26 cents a gram, but since it's 10 times as strong and mixes up to 10 times as much solution, that's like getting it for 2.6 cents a gram (slightly more than 2-1/2 cents a gram). So, IF you can put out the bigger amount of money, you are getting a good deal on the cost of Sol D Breeder. And IF you would use that much before the stuff goes off.

[dutch]

Nerien.....thanks for working out the costs

[Sally]

I have emailed Vetafarm to ask about the two supplements. Since it appears that the concentration is only in the powder, and once it is mixed according to directions, the solution is exactly the same, I've asked if there is some other difference between the two supplements. Though the ingredients are the same, perhaps the amount of each ingredient is different. I will post their reply, though since it is now the weekend, it may be next week before I get an answer. It will be interesting to see if they have an explanation for why the two products appear to be the same once mixed into solution. I'm beginning to wonder if the difference is simply that the Breeder is marketed to those with large collections, as it is actually cheaper to use the Breeder. It is all Soluvite D, one is directed at the small hobbyist, the other is directed at the large breeder--possible?

Every breeder will have different results from using any supplement, so what is my experience may not be the same as anyone else's. Each breeder should develop your own program, and if it works for you, then stay with it.

Dutch, you extended your aviary about the same time, didn't you? If so, perhaps it was the exposure to fresh air and sunshine in combination with the Soluvite D Breeder that made the difference.

[MiaCarter]

I'm very interested to hear what Vetafarm has to say!

I suspect it's the same product, just marketed differently. Though it's possible there are different concentrations of various ingredients. Interesting to find out!

I'll feel quite foolish if I spent all that money on the exact same thing as Soluvite D! (Especially knowing it will likely spoil long before I see the jar bottom!!) But at the time, I spent $300+ on Soluvite Breeder and other supplements. It felt worthwhile if it would have stopped the babies from dying.

To be honest, I didn't find Soluvite D breeder was worth the money as there really wasn't a noticeable difference for me. It's a big container and I actually plan to trade it to my breeder next time I need a few birds. (I'm kicking myself as I'd just gotten birds from her recently and forgot I had it! )

But then again, it looks like I was trying to use it to fix a problem that didn't exist! Seems that nutrition was never my problem, so a supplement can't fix what's not broken! LOL
So maybe for someone who's trying to breed with lots of nutritional deficiency, there may be a noticeable difference.

[dutch]

Sally......I extended the aviary 4 months after I had been using the soluvite

Before the extension I used the soluvite 7 days a week. .....After the extension only 5 days a week

It wasn't a poor diet that caused all the deaths.....it was the poor design of the avairy......the aviary didnt let in enough sunlight. .......especially in winter when it was covered in plastic

[dutch]

MiaCarter.....I checked your topics you seem to be having a few health problems with your birds

Are you still using the soluvite?

When you did use it.....how many times a week were you using it?

Are your birds indoors?

I haven't had a single sick bird in 8 months since using the soluvite.......that is a brilliant

[Ginene]

You are awesome, Nerien! I completely agree...You can't argue with science...and you, my friend have a brilliant mind and a wonderful way of expressing yourself. Especially love "the placebo effect" comment...well said. You have made many of us older forum members smile this evening .