Pellet feeding vs. seeds

chrischris · Post by **chrischris** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:35 am

I'm thinking of converting my finches to a pellet feed however I am a bit reluctant as I have heard good and bad things about pellet feeding. The most disturbing was that it predisposes the bird to kidney stones, causing calcium absorption/utilization issues and may lead to infertility issues in the birds.

Can anyone who is using pellet feeding either as a sole sorce of food or for a major part of the finch feeding please comment on the above?

Thanks,
Chris

Post by **Sally** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 11:00 am

I recently switched from seed to Lafeber's pellets, and I am going to order some Roudybush pellets. I had not heard the calcium or infertility issues, and mine have not been on the pellets long enough for any problems to be evident. I do love the pellets, and part of it is the convenience for me--no hulls flying everywhere and much less mess. I do still feed seed in the form of spray millet, but that is a once/week treat, and they also get plenty of veggies, etc. Since the pellets are supposed to be vitamin-fortified, it has also cut down on the supplements that I felt I had to feed before. Will have to see if anyone else usiing pellets for a longer time chimes in with their experience.

EmilyHurd · Post by **EmilyHurd** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:30 pm

I haven't heard anything about infertility and pellets either. All my birds eat pellets and seed... with breeding, I have found that my birds do much better when seed is offered a little more. But so far, pellets have been fine. My budgies are also on an all pellet diet, meaning they get no seed. They've been on it for quite a while and haven't noticed any problems. Then again, I don't know how to diagnose infertility in a bird.

chrischris · Post by **chrischris** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 4:28 pm

Thanks for you replies you're right about switching the diet around a bit. Do you mix the seeds and the pellets together? I think the problem with mixing them is that the birds will pick out the seeds only and leave the pellets alone. Perhaps seeds only on weekends would be good. What are your thoughts?

Chris

EmilyHurd · Post by **EmilyHurd** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:47 am

I just offer pellets in one and seed in the other... but originally, I had to take away seed for awhile to get them all to eat pellets. Now that they have eaten both, I can put both in, and they eat them both

chrischris · Post by **chrischris** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:15 pm

I went to the zupreem web site about their pellets and found it very informative and made a lot of sense. I think I'm going to switch my finches totally to the zupreem pelets. I might give them seeds once in a while. Just makes sense that it is a complete diet and the goulds are taking the pellets very well today. The switch wasn't too hard from totally seed to pellets.

I might give them seeds just on the weekend as a treat.

chris

rottielover · Post by **rottielover** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:23 pm

Chris,

It sounds like you and I are in the same "boat"...

I'm also wondernig about all these supplements on the market, wondering if I'm "doing right" by my birds etc.

However, I do have years of experiance with pellets in a larger bird, a Severe Macaw. The breeder raised his parents on Zupreem pellets, and he was raised and eats Zupreem pellets. My Avian vet told us that 90% of his diet should be the pellets with only 10% made up with treats and other foods (grapes, eggs, nuts, etc.).

I'm also converting all my finches (gouldians and soceity's) to an "all pellet" diet, but I still give fresh egg food as a "treat", along with spray millet.

Actually at this point I'm feeding both pellet and seed, as my Avian Vet told me not to switch them completely to pellets for 1 month after getting them. Well I had 2 birds that were already eating pellets and I've been aquiring more, so I have to provide both.

Easy way to get your birds to switch (what worked for my 2 original birds).

Seeds were moved to a dish put on the bottom of the cage, and pellets were put in cups attached up high in the cage. Like any lazy male (

) my birds would eat the pellets and rarely go ALL that way to the bottom of the cage to get to the "candy dish". After only 2 days the seeds weren't even touched anymore and I was able to remove them... then I got more birds :/

chrischris · Post by **chrischris** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 7:15 pm

I have a green cheek conure and he has been on Tropican pellets since November 2006 and seems to love it. It was no problems converting him over. I would say 99% of his diet is pellets. He still loves the very occasional fruit/seed given to him but thought it would be best that he get a more complete diet. I once had a African Grey that would pick out the sunflower seeds from the cup and leave everything else alone so I guess that is why I choose to go with pellets with the conure.

I guess gouldians like my African Grey would have a favorite seed and would probable just eat more of that seed making his diet unbalanced. I think pellets is the way to go. The more I think about it the more convinced it's best. And wow there is so much less pellets on the floor compare with seeds.

Anyways I'm going to purchase more pellets this weekend.

Chris

Marcos · Post by **Marcos** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:23 am

My Quaker has been on a %90 pellet diet (Roudybush and Lafabere) since he was a little baby. He was weaned to some seeds, and then right into pellets.

Ironically, I found this post because I just started converting the finches this morning......cold turkey......I may add. They are not too happy but there is no better time to do it than in the morning just out of the nest. They are searching in vain, but search, search, they may, they are out of luck. They are starting to eat them, although they are still searching for the seeds. I will give them some seeds (small amount) later. But they WILL be converted within the week.

Acctualy, from what I hear, finches convert much quicker than parrots do. We shall see about that.

About the safety. ..... It is my understanding that the companies have made major adjustments to their formulas by specifically reducing the amount of calcium and vitamind D, the two culprits that they believed were responsible for the possible association between birds on pelleted diets and kidney problems. There has never been any direct evidence that linked kidney problems to a pelleted diet. At best, and the evidence is very anecdotal, it has been by some that there may be an association or link between the two. Therefore, the formualry change was made. I spoke directly with one of Chicago's better known avian vets, and he did not think there was an association. I also spoke to one of Tom Roudybush's assistants and he told me the percentages of problems with birds on pelleted diets is very small.

In the meantime......they little ones are starting to tear into those pellets. Hmmm. These guys (girl too) are not parrots, I would never be able to convert them that easily after being on a seed diet for months. I guess their survival needs are great.

chrischris · Post by **chrischris** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:50 pm

I have one last pair of gouldian that I have been going slowly to a pellet diet. Started with 10% pellet in the dish and now after 1 week they are at 50% pellets in the dish. I must say they are smart birds because they are picking out the seeds to eat only and seem to leave behind the pellets.

Well today I am giving them 100% pellet only diet. They have no choice but to convert over to a pellet diet. They don't seem to be too interested in the pellets but I have seen them eating a bit of the pellets so that should be ok. With my other goulds it took them a week before they converted over and accepted the pellet diet well. I just gave them pellets and they had no choice. Thought they were going to starve initially but they are now eating the pellets very well.

So I feel the best way to conver over to pellets is probably to do a straight conversion and not give them the option to choose their food. Just my opinion.

As for seeds I may reintroduce it one day a week in the future 91-2 months later) or not at all.

Chris

p.s. Good luck marcos and tell me how your conversion went from seeds to pellet diet for your finches. BTW what types of finches do you have?

Marcos · Post by **Marcos** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:49 am

Hi Chris....
The conversion went perfectly...........and quickly!! It seemed a bit cruel, in that I went the cold turkey route. Of course, the first feeding they are the most hungry. They were really agitated for about an hour, looking high and low for their seeds in their dish......it was kind of funny even if it was a bit on the cruel side. But to me.............so what? I'm not going to worry about them going hungry a couple of hours if it means that they will then embark upon a diet that is ten times better for them. Eating seeds, is like giving a person a steady diet of hot dogs. Seeds represent a very small portion of what a bird should eat from a nutritional perspective. With pellets, really, you don't have to give them much else.

Anyway............after a couple of hours of looking in the cage, below the cage, flying around in a frenzy, back and forth (as if things were going to change with mere flight), one of them decided to be smart and try them. He did not just try them, he went to town. Of course that caused the other one to do so. Next thing ya know, they were both eating them all day.

Just to make the transition go smoothly on their systems, after knowing that they were eating the pellets, I placed a small seperate dish of seeds at the bottom of ther cage. That was even funnier. They flew down, looked at the seeds, and then flew to the pellets and started eating them instead. But then they switched over and went back to the seeds for a bit, and then back to the pellets. This morning it was out of the nest, and right to the pellets without hesitation. Mission accomplished !

My only hesitation is this however. Parrots on a pelleted diet live much much longer than those on seeds. Finches life spans are relatively short...usually even shorter than a budgie, but many years shorter than most parrots. Since finches only live 5-6 years, I am just wondering if it really makes any difference if you give them pellets or seeds. If it does not extend their life spans by a few years, then......what difference does it make? It's just a thought. If someone else can shed some light on this issue I would be curious.

rottielover · Post by **rottielover** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:50 am

My only hesitation is this however. Parrots on a pelleted diet live much much longer than those on seeds. Finches life spans are relatively short...usually even shorter than a budgie, but many years shorter than most parrots. Since finches only live 5-6 years, I am just wondering if it really makes any difference if you give them pellets or seeds. If it does not extend their life spans by a few years, then......what difference does it make? It's just a thought. If someone else can shed some light on this issue I would be curious

My thoughts:

I'm not sure that parrot's on pellet's live longer, that may very well be the case I'm not sure. However it could be said that parrot's on a "well balanced diet" live longer. To my way of thinking the pellet's are just an easier way for us humans to provide that balanced diet. In the wild our birds are free to seek out whatever nutrient they are lacking at the moment and consume food with that nutrient in it. In our homes, we must provide everything.

Even though our finches may not gain any years of life by eating pellets, I still think that pellets offer the easiest way to get balanced nutrition into our birds without a huge ammount of fuss on our part. If your feeding seeds, then your supplementing the diet with all kinds of "extra's" you have to prepare and maintain.

Here's a good Real Life example...

The Breeder I got my blue and split to blue birds from, feeds only seeds. She has an entire refrigerator full of "bird food". From seeds in the freezer to keep the bugs away, to fresh foods and all manner of supplements and vitamins in the fridge. She prepares "plates" of food for her bird cages (plastic lids with all manner of different foods on them).

I admire her dedication to her birds, and her wanting to keep them healthy with a balanced diet, however I also have to work 40-60 hours a week. I don't have the time at home that a stay-at-home mom does to prepare "meals" for my birds each day.

I need to make sure that my birds are largely "self sufficiant", meaning that I need to be able to change food and water once or twice a day, or even set them up for a weekend now-and-then.

So on that level, I think pellet's accomplish a few goals, they provide a balanced diet without much need for additional supplements. They can be fed in "hoppers" meaning you get setup your birds with a few days supply at a time. There is also the added benifit of less mess, no empty seed hulls flying around the bird room = less vacuuming/cleaning.

Anyway, I just feel that the benifits outweight any potential negatives.

If our finches don't live longer, perhapse they live healthier.

chrischris · Post by **chrischris** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:37 pm

Well said rottielover I agree with you and that is why I'm converting my finches to a pellet diet.

chris

Marcos · Post by **Marcos** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 1:34 pm

Of course the convenience factor is an important consideration when considering whether to convert to pellets or not. Stated simply, an all seed diet is not a nutritious diet. It is just that because parrots live much much longer than finches, the ill affects of an all seed diet show up more often in parrots than they do in finches. Finches ...like it or not....die at an early age. Even a conure (a small parrot) can easily live 25-35 years. Cockatiels have proven without question to live much longer on pelleted diets. If you doubt this assertion, by all means, contact Tom Roudybush. Last I heard his tiels were in their 26 plus years of life in his lab in California.

Interestingly enough, if you look at the pellets, most of it consists of .......sad to say, various items that most of us cannot even pronounce. Minerals, amino acids, and vitamins are the most important ingredients. That said, even the best of attempt to prepare food for birds apart and aside from their seeds, will not provide them with the nutrients that pellets can provide. Sure they are convenient, but as a rule, they are far more nutritious than what a person can provide their birds even with the best of efforts.

I am just not understanding the reluctance by many to concentrate the diet of their birds on pellets. I suppose that cat and dog owners were reluctant as well "back in the days." Today, most people acknowldege the fact that dry food is the best food you can give your cat or dog. And what is dry food? The same thing. It's formulated, chemicals, and related. Perhaps it will take another generation or so for people to accept not only the convenience of pellets, but the fact that they are better overall for their birds as well.

chrischris · Post by **chrischris** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:42 pm

Looks like my pair of goulds might be laying eggs soon as they are going into the nest box frequently. Glad that I have made the conversion in time for them from seeds to pellets and that they are eating well.

Chris