FINCHforum

I would really like to get a topic going on what everyone uses as daily supplements, such as cuttlebone-grit etc. From some of the posts I think we could really help others, particulrly new finchy people. I hope many will join in and give their views by talking about what we use as every day basics for finches and a bit more on preventative husbandry rather than dealing with issues as they arise.

Well Kenny I don't supplement alot of stuff everyday but I'll give you an idea of what I do.
Cuttlebone, grit and calcium iodine blocks are always available and clean. Sand is in a container for either pecking and dust bathing. Seed and clean water is a must everyday. I check my dry egg biscuit which I add oil seed and clean/top ul when necessary. Fruits vegies and leafy greens are given everyday but on a rotating basis which means they never get the same thing twice. Live foods toped up. This is pretty much the daily routine. Mineral and vitamin powder supplement given in water once a week during breeding season and during moult times. Codliver oil + wheat germ also given in seed during breeding time. Oh I forgot, soft food and sprouted seeds are given every second day till young are in nests then every day, Green seeding grasses are given everyday throughout breeding season. Tonic seed (high oil based seeds) are given during winter while all fruits and vegies are cut down to twice a week through winter and no soft food, live food or Green seeding grasses are given through winter at all. Hope I haven't forgotten anything. Hope this helps Kenny.

dan78 wrote:Well Kenny I don't supplement alot of stuff everyday but I'll give you an idea of what I do.
Cuttlebone, grit and calcium iodine blocks are always available and clean. Sand is in a container for either pecking and dust bathing. Seed and clean water is a must everyday. I check my dry egg biscuit which I add oil seed and clean/top ul when necessary. Fruits vegies and leafy greens are given everyday but on a rotating basis which means they never get the same thing twice. Live foods toped up. This is pretty much the daily routine. Mineral and vitamin powder supplement given in water once a week during breeding season and during moult times. Codliver oil + wheat germ also given in seed during breeding time. Oh I forgot, soft food and sprouted seeds are given every second day till young are in nests then every day, Green seeding grasses are given everyday throughout breeding season. Tonic seed (high oil based seeds) are given during winter while all fruits and vegies are cut down to twice a week through winter and no soft food, live food or Green seeding grasses are given through winter at all. Hope I haven't forgotten anything. Hope this helps Kenny.

thanks for the response. i often find newbies dont know where to start
Thanks for the info-very interesting

Thanks for the

Besides the clean seed, and fresh water and veggies + romaine daily, my birds get the following supplements: At all times they have at free choice available: cuttlebone (which the finches ignore and the budgies love), mineral mix, charcoal, crushed oyster shell, crushed eggshells, and miracle meal. They also get hard boiled egg mixed with cornmeal to make it crumbly (that's on the fresh veggie plate every day), and once a week liquid calcium + vitamin D in the water.

thanks for the response

kenny66 wrote:thanks for the response

I'm not an expert, but I am reading a lot of varied finch literature. It seems, regarding the control of how often and how much to give egg food, certain nutrients, etc., opinions vary. Some people say that in order to emulate nature, you should hold back on certain nutrients and give other foods at certain times of the year, especially to induce breeding conditions.

However, there is also the opinion that finches ought to be given the same healthy diet all year round. Of course, everything being in moderation so birds won't get fat and lazy. I tend to agree with the second opinion, because, at the end of the day, these finches are not living in the wild. Especially in the case where the finches are kept indoors (such as in Canada for the most part), they are getting exposed to basically the same variables. Apart from changing the hours of light they get, they are not getting the four seasons replicated within the room.

That's just IMHO. Furthermore, I don't believe in all those chemical additives and supplements. I think there's a huge market out there urging you to get all those "nutrients," "breeding enhancers," and antibiotics for your birds, and they are making a huge profit. I am not comparing human bodies to bird bodies, but I am using my education and common sense. Furthermore, there is a lot of knowledge we can glean by looking at how mother nature works.

Rour wrote:

kenny66 wrote:thanks for the response

I'm not an expert, but I am reading a lot of varied finch literature. It seems, regarding the control of how often and how much to give egg food, certain nutrients, etc., opinions vary. Some people say that in order to emulate nature, you should hold back on certain nutrients and give other foods at certain times of the year, especially to induce breeding conditions.

However, there is also the opinion that finches ought to be given the same healthy diet all year round. Of course, everything being in moderation so birds won't get fat and lazy. I tend to agree with the second opinion, because, at the end of the day, these finches are not living in the wild. Especially in the case where the finches are kept indoors (such as in Canada for the most part), they are getting exposed to basically the same variables. Apart from changing the hours of light they get, they are not getting the four seasons replicated within the room.

That's just IMHO. Furthermore, I don't believe in all those chemical additives and supplements. I think there's a huge market out there urging you to get all those "nutrients," "breeding enhancers," and antibiotics for your birds, and they are making a huge profit. I am not comparing human bodies to bird bodies, but I am using my education and common sense. Furthermore, there is a lot of knowledge we can glean by looking at how mother nature works.

Here's my recipe:

http://finchforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19016

I mix and match from a couple different diets. My opinion on the matter is that our finche know what they need and don't need so I give them a variety everyday and let them choose what they need and don't need. Yes they like their favorite things and will aways devour it but everything else will vary from being devoured one day to not really being touched the next. I try to not supplement my birds and let them choose what they need so here is what I do:

Fresh seed and water everyday (I use ABBA Seed)

Calcium plus mixed in the water once a week for the extra vitamin D since my birds don't ever get to go outside as its to cold where I live

Chopped up coleslaw (from the green day diet http://www.gulfcoastfinches.com/the_green_day_diet )

I give fresh hard boiled egg as follows: for every 5 eggs I use 1/2 cup of cornmeal and 1 tsp green powder.
Green powder: 1 cup kelp powder, 1 cup alfalfa powder, 1/2 cup crushed egg shell (This is from Lainey Alexanders diet and you can buy the powders from http://www.mountainroseherbs.com/ )

Fresh dark greens daily. I give something different everyday (bok choy, broccoli, dandelion, kale, collard etc... Both from green day diet and Lainey Alexanders diet)

Sprouted Seed is given everyday during breeding and twice a week when breeding season is done.

I mix crushed egg shell, miracle meal, ABBA mineral grit, cuttlebone, charcoal, oyster shell and mineral powder (morning bird) and serve it to my birds in a seperate dish free choice. (Candace's recipe http://finchforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11830 )

Herb Salad (twin beaks) in a seperate dish free choice.

Millet spray once a week.

I try and keep my diet as natural, varied and free choice as possible. I believe that my birds know what they need and when they need it an do not supplement with any vitamins.

I bought a free supply mineral/vitamin mix from a breeder an hour away. He offers it to his birds as an unlimited supply, and the birds just love it. I bought a small container to try out, and my goulds and zebras go nuts for it. Its a pink powder, and is supposed to give them everything they need. Its called "Vitamineral".

Anyone heard of this or use it?

Thanks Kenny
This is such a good idea. Me, being a newbie, have no idea what to feed my finches. This is helping very much. I am going to try some of these ideas.

Rour wrote:However, there is also the opinion that finches ought to be given the same healthy diet all year round. Of course, everything being in moderation so birds won't get fat and lazy. I tend to agree with the second opinion, because, at the end of the day, these finches are not living in the wild. Especially in the case where the finches are kept indoors (such as in Canada for the most part), they are getting exposed to basically the same variables. Apart from changing the hours of light they get, they are not getting the four seasons replicated within the room.

And that is the problem with a flat diet, in that most finches need triggers that they often don't receive in captivity which tell their bodies when to molt, when to breed, and when to rest. The triggers vary by species to some degree, but basically they are dietary variation, length of daylight hours, and temperature. In the case of Gouldians the primary trigger is dietary variation. A flat diet is probably the single biggest cause of infertility and pitching of nestlings as the male and female often don’t reach breeding condition synchronously without dietary triggers.

Here is a link to the feeding schedule and foods I have used with my Gouldians since being trained by Mike Fidler at the Save the Gouldian Fund in 2008:
http://www.fabulousfinch.com/feeding-la ... inches.htm

And here is a link to an article on “why” I use the food schedule above:
http://www.fabulousfinch.com/breeding-g ... inches.htm

While this information is specific to Gouldians it is applicable to many finch species (with consideration to unique needs such as more or less insects in the diet, etc).

Bill Van Patten
http://www.FabulousFinch.com

About the Save the Gouldian Fund
A state of the art research program based in Australia dedicated to the conservation and restoration of the endangered wild Gouldian finch. The study which started in 2005 includes both wild and captive Gouldians with a current annual research budget of 1M and a staff of 7 full time researchers. While the focus is on wild Gouldians, they also maintain a captive population of 2000 Gouldian finches for research that is more easily conducted in a captive environment. This research is of fantastic benefit to aviculturists as well as the primary scientific focus of understanding and helping an endangered species. The Save the Gouldian Fund is the largest sustained research program in the world on any finch species and is a very worthwhile organization to become involved with where your membership can make a real difference. You can learn more about the Save the Gouldian Fund at: http://www.SaveTheGouldian.org

In starting this thread I was a little more focused on providing some very basic information to those new people into finches who just want to understand what they need to do for their finches every day. There are many experts on the various finch species and their documentation and research is freely available on the internet. Truth is though, it is not practical for a lot of finch owners to be in a position to follow regimes of austerity versus breeding season diets and the like. Cost and availability of products may be an issue for some people. Most finch owners are looking to provide optimum conditions within their ability to do so. Therefore a simple approach to finch keeping might be of interest. That's all!!
I am sure everyone will greatly appreciate your advice on keeping gouldians.

Well Kenny this is great idea for new and old breeders alike to see how people try and keep there birds healthy and try to keep them from getting deficiencies of one type or another. As with most experienced birdkeepers have a good handle on what to feed during winter, pre breeding diet, breeding and after breeding diet as well as what extra supplements maybe required during those stages. Keeping it simple will help newbies get a better grip and not confuse them and in time will allow them to experience the more stricter schedule with the more difficult birds.

dan78 wrote:Well Kenny this is great idea for new and old breeders alike to see how people try and keep there birds healthy and try to keep them from getting deficiencies of one type or another. As with most experienced birdkeepers have a good handle on what to feed during winter, pre breeding diet, breeding and after breeding diet as well as what extra supplements maybe required during those stages. Keeping it simple will help newbies get a better grip and not confuse them and in time will allow them to experience the more stricter schedule with the more difficult birds.

your perfectly right. I notice some become very stressed about finch health and what to feed etc. I am trying to show that there are many different ways of keeping healthy finches. The hobby should be enjoyable, not daunting. if you read about the suggested regimes from some, you would need to be a scientist to work it all out. I am going to post my suggested ideas tomorrow and try and keep it very simple. BTW mine will be only suggestions as I beleive no one is right or wrong. But we might help reduce the concerns of some new owners, particularly, who are wondering whether they ar doing the right thing or not.

my birds all get eggfood daily when breeding molting, otherwise they get a little every other day. I alternate with veggies and greens. three times a week I add vitamins..I add calcium 2-3 times week when breeding molting . otherwise it is seed, h20, millet, herb salad, and cuttlebone at all times. I also make batches of birdie cornbread...and other things and freeze in single serve size, makes easy treats when I am busy, or the days I just feel like spoiling them a little more!!