Tasty or Terrible !

S. W. Houston · Post by **S. W. Houston** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:48 am

As a newbie to Finching, I find these little guys just great companions, and having been responsible for animal (not birds) care before, I understand and accept the responsibility of that.
I am really, REALLY, ticked off !

As some of you know, my birds were given to me, and I knew absolutely ZIP nothing, about keeping Birds. My “friend” who gave me them, also was kind enough to furnish me with a box of seed, to get me started.

It was: “Eight in One Pet Products, Premium Parakeet-Canary & Finch Blend”.

So, after a little cage cleaning, new paper in the tray, washing the feeders and then placing the seed and water in the cage for them, I thought I was in business. WRONG !

They ate a little, drank the water, and the next day, dutifully checking the food and water, I saw that there seemed to be very little seed eaten !! I read some of the FAQ here, blew the husks out of the seed feeder, and started over again, same seed, and I think I added a spoonful, just for good measure. Then the next day, same thing, hardly any food eaten.

I had herd the phrase “eat like a bird”, but knew that was an understatement, they can eat a LOT. I saw somewhere that a Finch would eat one or more Tablespoons of feed a day, and none of these birds, where coming anywhere close to that. In fact, the next day, I weighed the seed placed fresh in the feeder, and the next day, re-weighed it, and only four Grams of seed, had been eaten between FIVE birds !!!

BTW: 1 Tablespoon of seed, weighs about 9 to10 Grams !

I immediately went out, and bought:
LM Animal Farms, Vita-Vittles, Finch Diet, not that I even then, knew what I as doing.
Please note that the only bird mentioned on this product, is "Finch" !

When I got the new feed in the Cage, those birds nearly knocked each other over, trying to get into that stuff, as I stood there with my jaw dropped, watching the frenzy !

HOW DARE 8 in1 Pet Products, say that stuff of theirs is for Finches ! And when I threw it out on the Patio, the Sparrows, Blue Jays and Squirrel's ate it, but a lot of it is still laying there, and now I got to go wash it off the Patio.

So, for about four days, I had been starving my Birds, trusting the “advertisement” on a Package of Feed, which was a BOLD FACE LIE ! But, don’t get me wrong, I checked the 8in1, smelled it, not sour, no webs, no bugs, looked fine, SO it wasn’t that it was bad, just WRONG !

How dare they put the name “Finch” on that bag !

I got quite a few years to go still, and that crap is going to cost Eight in One dearly !

Have a good Day !

Post by **Sally** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 2:36 pm

I'm not familiar with either of those feeds, but the problem with the first is it is trying to be an 'all-in'one' type feed, for parakeets, canaries, and finches, when they all eat different diets. Come to think of it, I think that 8in1 is the type seed sold in places like KMart and other non-pet stores. Even among finches, different species prefer different diets, which is one of the challenging things about having multiple finch species! The other problem you will run into is that because finches don't seem to be nearly as popular as parakeets and canaries, finch seed mix may sit on the store shelves for a long time. It's not that the feed is bad, it just isn't fresh anymore, so it doesn't appeal to the birds.

I was buying seed by the 25# bag at my local feed store, which carries decent brands, but I finally realized that the finch seed was not fresh. My birds ate it, but they weren't thriving on it. I now mail order seed, and it is wonderful--the aroma when I opened the bag made ME hungry! Thank goodness you were observant and realized that your finches were not eating enough.

trevorama · Post by **trevorama** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 10:14 pm

Houston-I'm glad you found out before it was too late. There are all kinds of different foods you can find online that they love too. I find the selection is better than at the local petsmart. They really cater to larger birds.

Kathleen · Post by **Kathleen** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 1:09 pm

Hey Houston
8 in 1 WHAT !!! I would be upset too....I have recently ordered some great supplies from ladygoulian.com for my finches. You will find they love more than just seeds. Try leaving a dish of "fresh" baby spinach leaves, sprouts, chopped carrots and cucumbers for your finches, mine love it and they have fun. If we are to keep birds in cages we should give them nothing but the best we can.....

S. W. Houston · Post by **S. W. Houston** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 9:49 am

GEES, I can't seem to do anyting right !

I just hate plastic bags or boxes, and I move anything like Seed or Corn for the Squirrels over to a Glass Jar or Plastic Container. Those sacks tear and make a mess, and my hands are too big to get down into most of those sacks anyway.

So, when emptying the LM Animal into a Jar, guess what I found in the bottom. LOTS of webs !

But, I read somewhere that you can get rid of the "bugs" by freezing the Seed for seven days, and I had done that, inadvertently. I guess just to have a place to keep the seed till I needed it.

So should I throw it away and get some fresh, or did the freezing take care of it. My Birds seem to still like it, they've been eating it for several days now, with no apparent negative results (I don't think ?). Had to delay moving the LM into a container because of availability.

I bought both of them from a local "Mom/Pop" Pet Supply. I think I'll go to a more major store like PetSmart, they probably have a "quicker" turnover on their seed, therefore more fresh (or am I wrong about that too)?

How do you tell of it's fresh, do they have expiration dates, or something to let you know it's old ? I'd like to rip the sack open right there in the store, and pour it into a jar, where I can see it all. But, I don't think they would like that very much, and I'd probably have to buy it anyway.

I swear, the next time I buy seed, I'm going to pour it into a Jar up front, and if it's contaminated, ZIP back to that store immediately, and get my money back, or newer seed, but, how to you tell (that's redundant, I've already ask that question) !

Yeaaa, I'm retentive.

Who else do you know, that records and weighs the seed before and after!
I been in Engineering all my life, and dong test and calculations on some very detailed stuff is second nature to me. You probably think I'm nuts, but I AM glad I noticed that. I'm really still very mad about that misrepresentation!

But I have a utilization problem, you may have a comment on.

When I bag the uneaten seed from the Cages and bring it back to be weighed (fresh seed is placed in the Cages then - a known amount) I've been blowing out the husks, and weighting it, to compare to the start weight, I've been just dumping the "day old" seed out on the Patio, and not reusing it, and given that I’ve been putting in one TBSP more than they usually eat, it’s sorta wasteful. I love my Blue Jays, Sparrows and outdoor Finch, but…..

Can I just put it back in the supply container?
Is it bad now after it's been in the Cage for a day?
Have they eaten what they want out of it, and may not eat any more of it ?

Have a good Day !

Post by **Sally** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:55 am

When cleaning out the seed cups, it is OK to just leave the remainder of the seeds in the cup and top off with fresh seed. I wouldn't pour it back into the container, in case they have pooped in it. But, they may be leaving the seeds that they don't like, so they won't eat those the second time around anyway. There is always some waste with mixes, they have favorite seeds that they will eat first--giving the leftovers to your wild birds is a good use of them.

The webs you are finding are from seed moths, a very common pest with grains, and we all have to fight them. You can either put the seed in ziploc bags and freeze it, or some people put a few drops of orange oil on a cotton ball, place the cotton ball in a small container with some holes in it, and place that in their seed container...hmm, I'm trying to remember some other remedies I have read about...I'll do some research once I'm caught up from the holidays. Some people throw out seed once it has seed moths in it--I just freeze it and then feed it to my birds, they probably don't mind finding a bug or two!

S. W. Houston · Post by **S. W. Houston** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:24 pm

Ok, I’ve come up with a reasonable procedure.

When I do the feed and water in the morning, I’ve been weighing the (left over) seed from each Cage. But, putting in specific amounts to each cage, while I’m weighing the seed from the previous day. Then the next morning, I fill the feeders with the older seed, except for the Breeding Cage, which gets fresh each day.

I KNOW someone is going to roll his eyes on that

Sorry, I’m just very meticulous, and want to know if my Birds are consuming enough food !

So, here’s the details to date:
FYI: One level TBSP (1 tablespoon) is about 9 to 10 Grams of Seed.

My Cock and Hen are consuming (between them) about 7 Grams of Seed daily.
The Male Pair I have separated to their own cage, are consuming 10 to 12 Grams per day.
And the single Male is consuming 5 to 6 Grams per day.

Are these antiquate amounts for these three groups

Now, I’ve tried and tried to get them to eat their Veggies, and they will NOT touch them ! Offered Lettuce and Tomato but they don’t even approach the Treat Cup.
Is there any way I can encourage this, with out stuffing it down their throats

Have a good Day !

PS: Kathleen,
I tried www.ladygoulian.com but couldn't connect, have I spelled that right

Post by **Sally** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 3:22 pm

I have no idea how much mine eat--I use the seed hoppers, so I just empty the catch tray when needed and top off the seed when needed. I keep an eye on them--if they are active, singing, feathers look good, and I see them at the hopper from time to time, I figure they are doing fine.

If you are offering them iceberg lettuce, they probably won't like it. I've never tried mine on tomato, though the wild birds sure go after the tomatoes in the garden! Try offering spinach or romaine (either big pieces or shred it) or broccoli (I chop it up fine). I read recently about offering turnip greens, and my birds like that. Living in Houston, you have a wonderful green (chickweed) which grows wild in the winter time, but only if you don't use poisons in your yard. I have chickweed coming out now, and the birds all go crazy for it, earlier in the year I offered them dandelion greens. My neighbors probably think I'm nuts, because I don't put weed killers on my yard, so I would not win 'yard of the month', but my birds like me for it!

Post by **Sally** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 4:06 pm

I forgot to add in the last post - the site Kathleen is referring to is probably www.ladygouldian.com. She sells lots of supplies, many of which are aimed at Gouldians. Two members on this forum also sell supplies:

TammyS at www.justbirdstuff.com

and Sean and Michele at www.fairestfinches.com

I have ordered supplies from both sites--extremely fast delivery, and I have been pleased with everything I have received. I highly recommend them.

Kathleen · Post by **Kathleen** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 10:33 pm

Sally....thanks for the correction...and I too have checked out other sites as well. Lots of goodies for the birdies....sometimes we need to offer a new veggie or treat more than once to find out what they like. Also to allow for the birds to get over the possible fear of something new put into the cage. I have heard that sometimes the best way to introduce something new is to put the item on the outside of the cage so the birds can see it for a day, then put it inside the cage the next day. I have a table and chairs close by the cage so this makes it a bit easier to display a new toy or new dish of veggies. As far as the seed goes, I almost fill the four seed dishes in the morning, then I flip the seed from the bottom of dish to the top later that evening. Next day I empty the dishes into a plastic bag and refill dishes with new seed. Contents of bag gets emptied into a place for the wild birds to enjoy. Keeps it easy !! It takes a long time tho to throw out the eaten millet spray because they love to play with it and use it in their nests. I'm with you Sally, if they look happy and healthy, and you can see them eating, great !

S. W. Houston · Post by **S. W. Houston** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 8:35 am

Sally,
Yes, thanks for the correction in the URL. I visited the site, finding it well organized and they have a lot of information there too.

Kathleen,
I had no idea, that the Birds were SO sensitive to new “things” in their vicinity !

Additionally, your statement about turning the Seed over, implies that they come out of the Nest to feed at night! I usually cover my Cages, and wasn’t aware of that activity. Actually, it’s been a issue of self preservation, once they’ve shut up, I try not to disturb them ! Leave well enough alone, right !

Have a good Day !

Kathleen · Post by **Kathleen** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:37 am

Houston....correction...in the evening, not when it's dark out, is when I turn the seed. Also, my birds are outside in our garden shower which is a 12 foot by 14 foot area with 7 foot walls and is screened. They are in a double flight cage with a make shift roof for now. I leave the spot lights on until we go to bed so they do have longer hours of light than usual. As far as being sensitive to new things, just watch the way they react...I use to have parrots, a white cap Piones, a Quaker and an African Grey, and was taught not to put anything new in the cage until they were familar with it first. This did not apply to new foods put into a familar dish. Maybe finches are not as sensitive as parrots, but I figure why not give them the same consideration I gave to my other birds. Now that the Holidays are almost over, I plan to build an aviary or totally secure the area so they can fly around in or out of the cage. I just love these little guys but do wish they liked to be held and played with like a parrot. Oh well, ya can't have it all.... PS I don't think they see well at night and so therefore don't eat or fly around. I have heard other finch lovers say they keep a very low watt red light on at night and I am going to do the same. I also have a 150 watt ceramic heat lamp for warmth if they need it. Even in Florida it can get pretty cold out, even freezing, several times during our winter months. Anyway, happy holidays to all and have a safe new years.

S. W. Houston · Post by **S. W. Houston** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:51 am

Kathleen,

UOO, that setup sounds NICE !, wish I had the room to do that.
I see now about the food, but, why do you “turn” it ? Seems like you’d want them to eat “through” and then put fresh in. I’m sure your system works, and am looking for alternatives to the way I’ve been doing it.

That being I’ve only been putting the amount I know they’ll eat in the Feeders each day (actually a little more than that) and find that they don’t eat as much as I thought a “Bird” might. In fact, it’s a LOT less.

I read where a bird the size of a Finch should eat 1-1.5 TBSP of Seed per day, and mine are NOT making it ! I have had a problem with the kind of food (as you’ve read) but, am still not satisfied with either the LM Animal or Kaytee. Still looking for the Harrison’s and LeFeber here, but none as of yet.

My Birds have a short day, compared to yours. This time of year, they eat a bite and are up in their Nest/Roost by 6PM, and it’s amazing, regularly and exactly at 7AM, they let me know they want to be uncovered ! It’s amazing how those little guys work.

I ca assure you, they can NOT see all that well in dim light conditions. As you know, I’ve only had them a short while, and have been massaging their Cages, got one Male that’s rather aggressive, and had to separate him and his buddy from the others. I just don’t do anything in any of their cages after about 4PM, to make sure they know where things are, before dark. Those little guys have SO much to tell me, and it’s up to me, to pay attention.

I’ve herd about using a “night light” in their Cages, but the reference was to enhance breeding, I understand that !

I don’t suppose it matters (temperature not withstanding) I wouldn’t mind them having the opportunity to snack or move around the Cages, but is breeding what you’re trying to support with the lighting?

I have to laugh, yesterday (here in Houston) the Weather report said we may drop down below freezing (for tonight), it may have gotten down to about 34° (briefly), and everybody was petrified, I’ve never seen people so negative about it getting cooler. I’ve seen quite a number of times, where the Schools closed, because it Snowed here, or had Ice on the Roads. WOW, how acclimated can one get ?!

Have a good Day !

Post by **Hilary** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:32 pm

Houston -

Folks may use additional lighting to extend "daylight hours" for breeding, but a night light is really only meant to provide enough light that they can see during the night if they get spooked (so they can find their perches again and not just crash into the sides of the cage). I use those night lights that come in a 4-pack for $5 that have light sensors and turn on and off automatically. Others use strings of Christmas lights.

Kathleen · Post by **Kathleen** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:01 pm

Hilary....I just put up a string of X-mas lights serveral days ago and love it. I strung the lights in with the confederate jasmine on the black iron arbor next to the birds. Not only does it look nice by aluminating all the beautiful plants, I really think the birds like the idea. And best of all, if they want to move around, they can do so. And when they want to sleep, well....they just close up their little birdie lids, lol.

Houston....sorry, I don't turn the seed, I flip it ! In this way the good seed comes to the top and the shells go to the bottom of the dish. The next day I empty all seed dishes into a plastic bag, even if there's good seed left. When the bag (a small zip lock) fills up, I empty the bag into a common area that I can see from my diningroom window, to let the wild birds finish off any leftover good seed. I try to keep things as simple as possible....and so this seems to work for the wild birds, my zebras and me... The lights are so the birds can see a bit better. I am not a breeder, but we do have one teenager zebra named Munk-nah that hatched Nov 30th, and seems to be doing well and is just the cutest little thing. Anyway, all looks good and birds seem to be happy. Oh and it was very cold last night here in Florida, 32 degrees, and being a native, I was not happy when I had to cover plants and my fingers were frozen !! Although I like to use the fireplace, make my homemade chicken soup and have a warm drink, I really do not like "cold" wheather. And once again I thank God I don't live in the Northern part of the US...