grit or no grit? THAT is the question.

Marianne · Post by **Marianne** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 10:28 pm

Just wondering what everyone else does (or doesn't do) about grit. I've read that Zebras do need it, but other places that they do not. (The salesperson at Petco- which I realize is likely no expert- said grit can kill a finch!)

What to do?

Thanks!!!!

Post by **Hilary** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 10:40 pm

I've read that finches don't need grit since they hull their seed before eating it. To add to the question, though - I've heard a popular mixture of oyster shell and minerals referred to as "grit", though to me it sounds like a calcium source "plus". ??

Hilary

Marianne · Post by **Marianne** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 12:57 am

Thanks Hilary! Now that you say that, I think someone also told me the bit about hulling the seeds...

The oystershell and minerals sounds like a calcium source to me. Sometimes I wonder if the pet stores really know what they're selling?

PhilipE · Post by **PhilipE** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:15 am

Hi Marianne,
you've touched on a very hot debate topic with that question. You will find a lot of conflicting information on the internet. I'm a member of a Java Finch forum and I generally don't reply to that question anymore as some people there are very anti-grit and always try to convince people not to use it- I got tired of posting in that kind of environment- it's nice to keep an open mind! So, my opinion; I think it's okay, maybe even necessary. The main argument used against grit is that birds don't need it because they hull their seeds. While this is true, I have also noticed that the kernel is still quite hard so I guess that finches consume grit to help grinding down the kernel and not to break the hull.
Other people argue that grit is dangerous and that birds will overconsume and die of an impacted crop. While this may have occurred in some cases, I think they are very rare and the bird in question is either sick or silly. So if I have a bird who does this, my opinion would be "survival of the fittest or smartest". - If you deny your birds grit because you're afraid that one silly bird will overconsume it, the other birds who use it correctly are losing out. In the wild birds consume all sorts of organic materials that they won't normally get in captivity including grit and soil. Below I will post a link to a very interesting article on Finch Self Medication which, while not specifically about grit, might convince you that birds are actually quite smart and will consume what they need when they need it (this is why I provide grit with no worries and my birds never overconsume!). The second link I'm posting is specifically about the necessity of grit. As I mentioned before; if you want to find information on the net that says grit is bad, you'll find it no problem and if you want to find information that says grit is good, you'll equally find plenty. I have been in communication with breeders of sixty years experience who have never had a problem. Oyster shell, eggshell and Cuttlefish bone are not grit. While they may help digestion somewhat, they are more for calcium. Another substance which can be very useful is charcoal- this aids digestion and binds to toxins so birds may use it as a digestive aid or consume greater quantities if they are sick- (I have read an interesting article about this and will post a link if I can find it again).

Finch Self Medication link (Italian website- article in English):
http://xoomer.alice.it/Carduelis/e_index.html

Grit Article:
http://ozbird.com/roleofgrit.htm

I hope this helps you to decide- it will be your decision because as I said- there's lots of conflicting information. My decision was to let the birds decide!

TammyS · Post by **TammyS** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 8:22 am

I do provide my birds with grit - mainly as a calcium source - not for food digestion. I prefer the miner-a-grit to regular oyster shell grit as it also has 17 minerals added to it. I mix the grit with charcoal and eggshells and keep a dish of this mixture in my flights at all times. I don't see any of my birds over consuming any of this mix - but they certainly do enjoy it!

Crystal · Post by **Crystal** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:37 pm

Every avian medical text I've found mention which mention the use of grit in passerines (finches) states that grit is unnecessary and can pose a health risk. Therefore, most advise against its use. The kernel of the seed is digested by ezymatic and chemical processes just fine in those birds not receiving grit.

Marianne · Post by **Marianne** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:06 pm

Thank you everyone for your timely replies! I haven't been using grit up until this point (I don't believe these four had it before they got to me) but I will continue to pore over the literature in the meantime. Who knew how much could be said on the subject!? I suppose until I have more experience I'll sit back and listen to you all, who have vastly more knowledge than I on this topic. Thanks again.

Shadowfax · Post by **Shadowfax** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 4:50 pm

I read bot the pros and cons and came to the conclusion that this species did not thrive in the wild by being stupid enough to eat something it should not. better to provide somehting they don't need than not provide something they do.

Anyway I give my finches a mix of fine grit and oyster shell. I buy them seperate and mix it myself. They also have cuttle bone and a mineral block. They use all of these sources each in their own desired amounts and in my reletivly short time as a finch owner I have seen no ill effects.

kenny · Post by **kenny** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:26 am

hi shadowfax
you are right i have been keeping finches for 25 years and always supplied oystershell iodine/mineral blocks and cuttlefish with no ill affects with any of my birds i beleive that if it did them harm they would just not eat it but all are a good source of calcium and vital minerals that they need to form good bone and eggs with a good sound shell i have never once had a bird lay an egg with a clear shell ..but i do know of a lot of people who have and they dont supply any sort of minerals to thier birds

ken

tammieb · Post by **tammieb** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:49 pm

There needs to be a distinction made between soluble(digestible) grit like; oyster shell, cuttlebone, etc. and unsoluble grit such as; crushed sandstone, beach sand, etc.

Finches hull their seed so they do not require sand or other abrasive materials to grind their seed.

But the vitamins and minerals found in soluble grit are essential.

Carmen · Post by **Carmen** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 6:24 am

I provide my birds both with grit and oyster shell. The birds don't take much of the grit, so I guess they don't need it. People here in the Netherlands say it's necessary, but I'm doubting it.
I give it though, and I don't have silly birds.
It could be health concerning, but I guess the vets saying this are probably referring to scientific inquiries, where they haven't tested the birds ate it by themselves. And every overusing is damaging, so kind of logic...
In my opinion birds will sort it out for themselves what they need and what they don't need. How would they otherwise be able to survive in the wild?
The minerals I give them are most wanted by my hens. When they are producing eggs they 'run' at it when I provide them with new.

I would say, give them both, they will pick what they need.

Anneka · Post by **Anneka** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 3:33 am

Marianne wrote:Sometimes I wonder if the pet stores really know what they're selling?

This is a bit off topic, not food related, but I had to make a comment.

I was calling pet stores to find out if they had finches and what kind. Most of the stores knew what kind of finches they had but when I called two locations of Pet Supplies Plus asking if they had finches, first they wanted to know if I wanted to buy a wild or exotic finch.

I wanted to tell them that if I was looking for a wild one, I would not be calling a petstore.
When they told me they had some finches, I wanted to know what kind. I was looking for a chocolate/white Society with lots of white.
Well, that person hesistated for a moment and then said that she had no idea what kind of finches they were. I asked her to check the sign next to their cage and when she came back, she said, "exotic".

tammieb · Post by **tammieb** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 9:08 am

Yeah, I know what you mean. If you ask a simple question and you get that dumbfounded look, watch out. I sometimes feel like I am giving the shop employee a lesson on finches when I stop in to buy something.

Rue · Post by **Rue** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 11:58 am

That's the problem with store labels...they're used to differentiate different stock, probably price-based (?)...so they sometimes use 'odd' terms...

...Petsmart has regular (normal blues and greens) and rare budgies (diff. colours)...that always makes me laugh...

Thalia · Post by **Thalia** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 2:03 pm

lol I giggle at that too Rue, but what really kills me is that they sell the Fancy Budgies for more money even though sometimes it's just a simple mutation.