FINCHforum

Well its the beginning of monsoon / rainy season where I live (Indonesia)
and I just recently learned a recipe from a local breeder who put tonic inside his bird seed mix to keep the birds' body warm and strong. the ingredients are natural herbs (ginger and turmeric), honey, and vitamins that are mixed with water and let to seep inside the seeds... I've followed the recipe, and dried the seeds under the sun - they got this new spice-y fragrance now.

what I didn't expect was that my birds apparently knew I put something new into their food. they don't finish their food now, what usually is done within a few short hours is now left and is still available the next day.

what am I to do now? their whole seed stock have been mixed with this natural tonic but if they don't want to eat it then its all for naught... it's only been a day though, perhaps I should wait a little bit longer hoping they accept the new food?
or should I perhaps get new fresh seeds and mix it with the tonic imbued seeds? to let them get used to the new food...

thanks

It's always hard when changing their diet, some birds get very picky at that time. Can you get a small amount of their regular seed, and then add just a little of the treated seed mixed in with regular untreated seed? Then you could keep increasing the amount of treated seed until they are eating it all. Watch to make sure that they are eating enough each day, as you don't want them to quit eating completely.

Java are rather selective... they tend to select certain seeds and hunt those out.... the tonic used may put them off.

I would offer their usual diet in one bowl and the new in another...not mix it. To me the fragrant smell might be appealing to you but they may not like it so mixing it with their regular seed may not work or they may root through the mix of two and find the untreated seed....wasting your seed.

I would personally go back to their old diet and supplement them with a good vitamin (powdered if available) egg food, veggies... offer your herbs in separate dishes so they can go to as needed or they desire.

I would be concerned with removing their regular diet to fast and not slowly transitioning them by giving them a choice that it will cause them to loose body weight. In trying new things always try the new next to the old and slowly let them choose.

Sally cindy

Thanks for the input
I have already got them new regular food.
but do you think if I slowly mix normal food with tonic imbued food they will someday learn to accept them?
I'll give one tablespoon of normal seed per bird, and a pinch of tonic seed as a start. gradually adding more tonic until the normal seed is all gone

I would offer it side by side in separate dishes.... Just my opinion. My flock of javas are very picky and relish specific seed...to keep them warm in the winter you can try hulled oats chopped hulled sunflower or safflower...these are a bit of a fattier seed so use these sparingly and monitor that the birds are not getting fat. You can also help keep them warm by offering a heat source like a heat lamp at one end of the cage to go to when needed

mondo wrote: Well its the beginning of monsoon / rainy season where I live (Indonesia)
and I just recently learned a recipe from a local breeder who put tonic inside his bird seed mix to keep the birds' body warm and strong. the ingredients are natural herbs (ginger and turmeric), honey, and vitamins that are mixed with water and let to seep inside the seeds... I've followed the recipe, and dried the seeds under the sun - they got this new spice-y fragrance now.

what I didn't expect was that my birds apparently knew I put something new into their food. they don't finish their food now, what usually is done within a few short hours is now left and is still available the next day.

what am I to do now? their whole seed stock have been mixed with this natural tonic but if they don't want to eat it then its all for naught... it's only been a day though, perhaps I should wait a little bit longer hoping they accept the new food?
or should I perhaps get new fresh seeds and mix it with the tonic imbued seeds? to let them get used to the new food...

thanks

Saya Namamu or was it siapa Nama?

I lost my Indonesian. I was there for a month. Beautiful country. I think what's happened is that your mix may have gone rancid and the mixture is too wet due to the rainy season. What you should offer are the seasonal edible items they would naturally eat at this time. Try giving them in the dry season. Plus the honey in Indonesia is slightly fermented due to the water content. It's like a syrup, whereas in America or other warm places honey is very thick and viscous. Also, I did the same once in 30gm batches of the honey mixture... They will not eat honey mixed into seed well. They're afraid the shells and hulls will stick to the inside of their mouth and choke them.

Try feeding honey separately as a stand alone treat.

a few articles on java and diet http://www.efinch.com/species/java.htm Roy Beckham another well known finch expert, he has put a bit of time into studying species, their habits, breeding and especially diet.
"Diet
The Java Sparrows diet begins with a basic parakeet seed mix. You can use a standard finch mix, but these often contain a number of smaller millets that the Javas will ignore until the last large white millet is gone. You can also offer them just plain White Prosso and any other seeds in a separate dish. Javas will often seek out the oats in a Parakeet mix and will sift through the seed until they find it all. In a gravity feeder, this means they will drain the entire supply and scatter the seed looking for the oats. It is best to offer them and they will eagerly take egg food (Roy's egg food mix), gamebird crumbles and green food. I have never seen them eat live food, but suppose they could be enticed to if you really insist (but why feed livefood if you don't have to). Calcium can be provided in the form of crushed egg shell, crushed oyster shells or cuttlebone, but they are not normally enthusiastic about the cuttlebone. Despite their name, they really don't eat a lot of Rice. I have offered them Paddy Rice like I do all my Mannikins and Munia, but they are not as enthusiastic about this seed as some of the other Lonchura. They do like the Paddy Rice in a sprouted form."


from Garrie Landry one of our country's leading java breeders

"Proper care for Java Sparrows requires only a modest effort on the part of the keeper. In the wild state, Javas eat a tremendous amount of rice. Oddly enough, I have offered rice to my captive Javas and they showed no interest in it. The diet of Java Rice Birds in captivity is very simple. They adapt very well to the same diet preferred by Budgies (parakeets). A standard parakeet mix containing large white proso millet, plain canary seed, and oat groats is the basic requirement. The canary and millet can be in given equal proportions, or the percent of canary seed can be somewhat lower. Oat groats are relished and should comprise about five to ten percent of the mix, perhaps more in breeding seasons and winter months. A standard finch mix is also quite suitable for Javas, although I think they would prefer the larger seeds found in parakeet mix. I routinely give my Javas a soft nesting food several times per week during the breeding season and on rare occasions I offer them greens. They love both! My Java always have access to an aromatic finch mineral grit which I buy from Sunshine Bird Co. in Miami, Florida, and finely crushed egg shells, which I get daily from a local Chinese resturant. I mix the two in equal proportions. They consume tremendous amounts grit and eggshell, especially during the breeding season."

I raise many java different mutations and have a large flight and some breeding at all times.... things I have observed they love: hulled oats and groats, boiled grated egg, dried egg food mixes, they will take pellets, chopped kale, collard greens, carrots, squash, shaved broccoli, white proso, occasionally you will see them trying whole shelled safflower seeds. They love chitted quinoa when mixed in boiled grated egg. When breeding they go through massive amounts of food and require good proteins and a constant supply along with veggie chops offered daily. They do require a good vitamin mix. (just to caution you if you breed your java, clutches range from 6 to 10 so food for the young and lots of it is a must) Animal or insect protein is very different in composition than seed and veggie protein and the young need this to grow properly and strong.

Roy Beckham has mentioned his egg food recipe above...it is wonderful and you can adapt it to fit your birds needs....it can also be served in smaller amounts daily. Our vet recommends the animal protein for parents with young to provide them with a protein level of 20 to 25 % not to exceed 30%....non breeding should be between 12 to 19% daily. She personally discourages live food since in some cases and sources you can transmit parasites...if you do decide to use live food find a very reliable clean source. Java typically will not take to live food.

this site is set up a bit differently, you need to click on each food category.... http://www.javasparrow.co.uk/feeding.htm
http://www.javasparrow.co.uk/seed.htm

a good seed millet this leading authority in Europe uses is:
Panicum Yellow 12KG
Yellow Millet 8.25KG
Canary 4KG
Panicum Red 1.5KG
Red Millet 0.75KG
Niger 1.5KG
White Millet 2KG

additional seeds that can he offers:
Panicum Yellow 27%
Peeled Oats 27%
Japanese Millet 17%
Yellow Millet 10%
Red Millet 8%
Rape Seed 5%
Linseed 3%
Niger 2%
Canary 1%

he also recommends additional treat seeds... like millet strands (some soak these until the just start to chit the birds love it). he mentions Japanese millet...all my birds love this and a brown top mix.

Not sure if some of these seeds are available where you are, if so you may want to give them a try.

TailFeathers wrote: Saya Namamu or was it siapa Nama?

I lost my Indonesian. I was there for a month. Beautiful country. I think what's happened is that your mix may have gone rancid and the mixture is too wet due to the rainy season. What you should offer are the seasonal edible items they would naturally eat at this time. Try giving them in the dry season. Plus the honey in Indonesia is slightly fermented due to the water content. It's like a syrup, whereas in America or other warm places honey is very thick and viscous. Also, I did the same once in 30gm batches of the honey mixture... They will not eat honey mixed into seed well. They're afraid the shells and hulls will stick to the inside of their mouth and choke them.

Try feeding honey separately as a stand alone treat.

haha its "siapa namamu", yes the land is beautiful and fertile
I don't think so? its fresh seed, and I dried it under the intense tropical sun... "other warm places" you mean cool / cold? o.o well we still got some thick honey here BUT to mix it to the seeds I have to dilute it in water anyways, and I only used 2 tablespoon for 1 kg of seeds

Not sure if some of these seeds are available where you are, if so you may want to give them a try.

pffftt-!!! what are you talking about of course they are available! ^_^

my mix:
- canary seed 1kg
- rape seed 1oz
- white millet 1oz
- niger seed 1oz
- paddy rice 1kg <--- only the javas are interested so I serve them separately

Of course you can ;) ;)

can you get hulled oats? Can you get quinoa? If so soak the quinoa over night, it will start to chit (you will see a tiny tail/sprout coming from the seed) rinse well and drain...I add this to egg food and they love it. Try dried or fresh herbs in a small dish also

cindy wrote: Of course you can ;) ;)

can you get hulled oats? Can you get quinoa? If so soak the quinoa over night, it will start to chit (you will see a tiny tail/sprout coming from the seed) rinse well and drain...I add this to egg food and they love it. Try dried or fresh herbs in a small dish also

they do? I've never offered sprouted seeds so I don't know how long it'll take them to eat it.
as for eggfood, I usually just offered boiled egg cut in half so they can feed off the soft yellow...

Try finely grating your egg...they will eat both the white and yellow part of the egg!!!!

Try finely grating your egg...they will eat both the white and yellow part of the egg!!!!

ah~ a useful tip! I'll try thank you
can I mix the grated eggs with drops of vitamins or diluted honey perhaps?

I use powdered vitamins but if you are using a liquid you may want to mix it in a tiny portion of egg food to guarantee they eat the egg and vitamin completely...when that tiny portion is done offer the a bit more of the egg. (I also am running the question of giving raw honey by our avian vet and am waiting a response)

I do not use or recommend raw honey due to the risk factors of botulism as many of the sites recommend not to. I do how ever give my birds bee pollen from time to time mixed in egg foods and it is in some of the seed and treat mixes here in the states. Goldenfeast includes it in their Australian Blend product...it smells wonderful...my owls, Chestnut Breasted mannikins, javas and goldbreast love it. We also can buy bee pollen from various avian sites such as AviTech and distributors for Morningbird Products.