Seed preference and nutrition

[Stuart whiting]

Sojourner

If you don't intend to breed that won't seem to mater if you want some more bengalese,

In reality it doesn't really matter what sex the bengalese are because these birds are probably the only birds I know where you can have eaither sex together without the continuous bickering between one another, unlike zebras

[Sojourner]

Stuart whiting

It's not the bickering - it's the EGG LAYING. I lost one of my original pair to egg binding even though (as it turns out) they were both female.

Now I have a male who was given to me with the idea that he was female (he isn't) and I thank my lucky stars I've not had a single egg dropped. They have shown mating behavior though that by and large stopped when I stopped exposing them to extra hours of daylight via artificial lighting. Apparently one of them must be infertile. I would really rather not take the chance of inadvertent mating resulting in egg-laying and all the problems that go along with that in a mixed-sex group of birds.

In short I would really really REALLY like to have a cage full of all male Bengalese, but that isn't easily or affordably accomplished given the lack of gender identifying dimorphism. So I'm hesitant to get more birds.

I'd love to have Owls, but - same problem. You can't tell the males from the females until its too late.

[Stuart whiting]

Stuart whiting

It's not the bickering - it's the EGG LAYING. I lost one of my original pair to egg binding even though (as it turns out) they were both female.

Now I have a male who was given to me with the idea that he was female (he isn't) and I thank my lucky stars I've not had a single egg dropped. They have shown mating behavior though that by and large stopped when I stopped exposing them to extra hours of daylight via artificial lighting. Apparently one of them must be infertile. I would really rather not take the chance of inadvertent mating resulting in egg-laying and all the problems that go along with that in a mixed-sex group of birds.

In short I would really really REALLY like to have a cage full of all male Bengalese, but that isn't easily or affordably accomplished given the lack of gender identifying dimorphism. So I'm hesitant to get more birds.

I'd love to have Owls, but - same problem. You can't tell the males from the females until its too late.

Easy way around that then is to get birds that are diamorphic like Gouldians,

Problem solved

[Sally]

Sojourner Where are you located? Some breeders are really good about sexing their birds before selling them. They will maintain all-male or all-female flights so that they can guarantee the sex for buyers. To me, Societies are the absolute best beginner bird, because they have so few problems EXCEPT they are monomorphic.

[Sojourner]

Easy way around that then is to get birds that are diamorphic like Gouldians,

Problem solved

Yeah - if I liked Gouldians, which I don't. Plus they're LOTS more expensive than Bengalese. Don't know how they compare to Owl finches pricewise.

No offense to lovers of Gouldians, that's just not the type of finch that floats my boat. They seem to be unavailable in my area anyway.

I want a fairly peaceable gregarious finch that doesn't require a special diet (such as live food). I had toyed with the idea of Red-headed Parrot finches - until I discovered they need live food.

When I say "gregarious", I mean within the flock. I don't want or need my birds to cozy up to me, I just like watching them interact with each other.

Really owls and Bengalese are my 2 favorites among the birds I know I can handle. Also Javas, but I don't think there are any in the entire STATE and you can't bring them across state lines any more. Plus apparently they need live food - though we never fed them live food when my mother was breeding them 50 years ago. They seemed to do well without it, but if they really do need live food, they'd have to be stricken off my list anyway. Pearl headed munias also seem to fall into this category of needing live foods, sadly.

I like (as long as they don't REQUIRE live food)
Bengalese
Owls
Silverbills
Tri-colored Munia
White-Headed Munia
Chestnut Munia

There are other finch species I like the looks of but would only keep if they can be kept healthy without the use of any livefood (even dead livefood such as dried mealworms or crickets) whatsoever, such as Javas, Spices, Stars, and the Pearl headed munia.

I've seen it said that Owls occasionally eat live food, but live in hope that they don't actually REQUIRE it, since they are in a 3-way tie with Javas and Bengalese for my favorite finches.

At any rate, I have yet to find a single breeder of finches where I live, though there must be somebody around here supplying the Spice finches to one of the local non-chain pet stores here. I know there are lots of Zebras being bred and sold off at another locally owned pet store, but from what I've gleaned these are mostly the result of unintentional matings. You know what Zebes are like. I've seen those for as low as $5 apiece on occasion.

I don't mind their looks and I don't denigrate their habits, either, they're just too noisy and quarrelsome for me. My rescue parakeets already occupy that particular niche in my house, LOL!

I had intended to go to a nearby bird mart (nearby meaning about 3 hours away) last month but due to still trying to clean and paint the new house I didn't make it. I'm not set up even with the birds I have here yet, so new birds are still somewhere off in the future, maybe, if I can ever find any that don't come from PetSmart et al.

[Sally]

When I had Owls, I did not give them live food, even when breeding. When I had them, I would place one bird in a small cage and put it in the next room, where it could still hear the other Owls but not see them. If it was a male, it would usually sing within 15 minutes. If it did not sing in that time period, I put it back and tried again the next day. After three tries, if it did not sing, I would assume it was a female. I only had one mistake that I know of, I sold an Owl to finchmix22 as a hen and it sang after she had it. Fortunately, she had wanted a male anyway.

I once bought two pairs of Owls and noticed a lot of eggs on the floor during quarantine. I placed each bird in a small cage of its own, and the next morning, all four cages had an egg on the bottom! Some say you can sex them by various visual cues, but I also know of mistakes that were made with those methods.

[cindy]

I agree often you can do a visual but with some of the owls it is hit or miss.

Once they sang boys were marked with a blue band

[Sojourner]

The problem with the wait-until-they-sing method of sexing birds is you can't do that until after (sometimes well after) you've already brought them home. And then what do you do with the off-sex birds? LOL!

I guess I COULD keep separate cages of males and females - but given I plan to have double-flights that are 6' long total, that's an AWFUL lot of room taken up. I'd need a 24 total linear feet of bird cages for just 2 species, to separate male/female and owl/Bengalese. Plus another 6' for the budgie cages.

I know that I'm over-reacting to the death-by-egg-binding of one-half of my first pair of finches (in recent times). But I'm pretty isolated and despite these being non-handling sorts of birds, I was really broken up when she died. And that was with 2 females in the cage!

Maybe I'll get over it, but it has been over a year so far already.

I suspect Pyewacket (the white female) is probably sterile. When I first got her and her little buddy (also female), she used to do a song and dance thing that made me think she might be male. Having seen the whole ball of wax after getting a definite male, I can see that it wasn't real male mating behavior. However it is not unknown for juvenile females to do that sort of thing. However however she continued to do that past the point where I would have thought it would have stopped.

My thinking is that she is probably slightly masculinized due to a hormone imbalance. She has finally stopped the behavior and I have seen Bambi (my little male fawn tail-less rescue finch) mount her on more than one occasion. But she's never dropped an egg. I'm just as glad of that, whatever the cause.

[Sally]

Yes, the method I used has to be done by the breeder. Some are better about sexing their birds, the good breeders want to have happy customers so they will do it.

[Stuart whiting]

Sojourner

Fella, I only stated Gouldians being diamorphic as an example, if you don't particularly like em then fair do's as being onest I'm not a great lover of em no more eaither,

I don't mind the normals as much but can't stand all of the mutation Gouldians,

To every answer that you receive you appear to be making obstacles,

I personally think that the bengalese are the best birds for you as everything is easy with em ,

Yes ok they are monomorphic but you can just keep learning more about them as you go along, there simply not a difficult bird to understand and keep and onestly think that these will be the best for you,

Bengalese are a very underrated bird by many but there also a lot of serious breeders out there who purely specialise in these birds,

I've got a fair few meself

[JerseyGuy]

Excellent point, Stuart. I had initially bought a bag of Pellet bird food for my Gouldians, but have since thrown it out in the trash !

[cindy]

Patrick, have you tried Lafeber's or Zupreem fruit blend?

[Stuart whiting]

Excellent point, Stuart. I had initially bought a bag of Pellet bird food for my Gouldians, but have since thrown it out in the trash !

You've probably done the best thing there Patrick,

I personally don't agree with pellets as to me it's not a natural food source,

Yes ok we all use egg food but this is really used for rearing purposes,

What I fail to understand is why on erf do some feed pellets all the year round to finches and even canaries,

These birds are predominantly seed eaters so to me would make sence if feeding a quality seed diet as apossed to adding pellets into the diet,

Seed is the easiest form of bird foods that can be purchased and because of this the prices should be quite reasonable,

With this one shouldn't need to compramise as regards to diet

[cindy]

I use pellets on all my birds but it is mixed in the seed, they always get seed. Only one bird was put on an all pelleted diet and that was a hen pet/tame lovebird that would go into egg laying mode when seed was added to the diet...my avian vet worked with me for the longest time to try to correct the issue...all pellets seemed to work for her.

I discussed diet with my avian vet when I brought home a Green Cheek conure baby...all pellets or not. She told me new studies were done that show a bird on a pelleted diet also need seed. She told me variety is essential for brain stimulation and it keeps the bird from getting bored. Seed does carry some nutritional value...also chitting and sprouting it increases the food value three fold.

The other alternative is a very complete vitamin, mineral amino acid supplement added to soft foods as directed.... one is AviVita Gold by AviTech, there are others out there as well.... you can chit your seed, mix in some ground dried egg food with the vitamins, toss and serve.

Anything you want your young fledglings to eat introduce at fledging.

[Sally]

I once purchased hulled millet to offer my fledglings, thinking this would be an easy food for them to eat. It was funny to watch them try to hull the already-hulled seed. They'd pick up that millet, and work it over and over, trying to get the nonexistent hull off. Instinct is a powerful force. Seeds are necessary in a finch's diet for stimulation, in addition to the nutritional benefits.