Seed preference and nutrition

[Stuart whiting]

I use pellets on all my birds but it is mixed in the seed, they always get seed. Only one bird was put on an all pelleted diet and that was a hen pet/tame lovebird that would go into egg laying mode when seed was added to the diet...my avian vet worked with me for the longest time to try to correct the issue...all pellets seemed to work for her.

I discussed diet with my avian vet when I brought home a Green Cheek conure baby...all pellets or not. She told me new studies were done that show a bird on a pelleted diet also need seed. She told me variety is essential for brain stimulation and it keeps the bird from getting bored. Seed does carry some nutritional value...also chitting and sprouting it increases the food value three fold.

The other alternative is a very complete vitamin, mineral amino acid supplement added to soft foods as directed.... one is AviVita Gold by AviTech, there are others out there as well.... you can chit your seed, mix in some ground dried egg food with the vitamins, toss and serve.

Anything you want your young fledglings to eat introduce at fledging.

Hi Cindy,

Nothing meant by it, it's just me mate,

I can sought of understand about varying the diet etc and birds need a stimulant and what have you but I just can't really see what a seed eater gains from eating pellets,

It's like wild sparrows gorging them selves on bread that we so very often throw out into the garden for them but in reality it's not really doing em any good

Over a lot of years I have seriously tried the use of pellets and these have been fed to something I suppose in the region of about 400-500 birds,

Out of all these birds I think I had maybe about 10 birds eat pellets,

This to me is enough proof to meself that I was just simply waisting time and money and is now why I choose not to use em

The way that I look at it, if a bird needs seed it gets it, if a bird needs live food it gets it and if birds need to have soak seed and egg food to rear there young they then get it, these type of foods are vital for the keeping and breeding of various birds but the pellets for the life of me can't see where these are supposed to fit in

For whoever does use pellets that's obviously fine as I definitely can't say what to do, all I can mearly do is try to explain my experience with pellets and why I don't get on with em

[cindy]

No worries Stuart... tried with and without pellets (supplementing instead) and always end up putting the birds back on pellets... the hookbills just seem to better on them. Finches do get more of a varied seed mix... not every finch species will eat the same thing, some favor different seeds over others!!!

It would be nice to have an overall food product that satisfies everything the birds need, mentally and nutritionally.

Some depending how they were raised just do not take to anything but seed.... then you need to add in supplements.

[debbie276]

I use pellets on all my birds but it is mixed in the seed, they always get seed. Only one bird was put on an all pelleted diet and that was a hen pet/tame lovebird that would go into egg laying mode when seed was added to the diet...my avian vet worked with me for the longest time to try to correct the issue...all pellets seemed to work for her.

I discussed diet with my avian vet when I brought home a Green Cheek conure baby...all pellets or not. She told me new studies were done that show a bird on a pelleted diet also need seed. She told me variety is essential for brain stimulation and it keeps the bird from getting bored. Seed does carry some nutritional value...also chitting and sprouting it increases the food value three fold.

The other alternative is a very complete vitamin, mineral amino acid supplement added to soft foods as directed.... one is AviVita Gold by AviTech, there are others out there as well.... you can chit your seed, mix in some ground dried egg food with the vitamins, toss and serve.

Anything you want your young fledglings to eat introduce at fledging.

Hi Cindy,

Nothing meant by it, it's just me mate,

I can sought of understand about varying the diet etc and birds need a stimulant and what have you but I just can't really see what a seed eater gains from eating pellets,

It's like wild sparrows gorging them selves on bread that we so very often throw out into the garden for them but in reality it's not really doing em any good

Over a lot of years I have seriously tried the use of pellets and these have been fed to something I suppose in the region of about 400-500 birds,

Out of all these birds I think I had maybe about 10 birds eat pellets,

This to me is enough proof to meself that I was just simply waisting time and money and is now why I choose not to use em

The way that I look at it, if a bird needs seed it gets it, if a bird needs live food it gets it and if birds need to have soak seed and egg food to rear there young they then get it, these type of foods are vital for the keeping and breeding of various birds but the pellets for the life of me can't see where these are supposed to fit in

For whoever does use pellets that's obviously fine as I definitely can't say what to do, all I can mearly do is try to explain my experience with pellets and why I don't get on with em

Absolutely agree with you here Stuart!

[cindy]

Stuart a lot of studies and research go into most quality pelleted food as with dry dog kibble and cat kibble, some have different formulations depending on the birds' needs and species. Most pelleted food is targeted towards hookbills though some companies like Zupreem, Roudybush, Lafebers and Goldenfeast (organic) do have finch and canary pellets.

I have been a big pellet promoter especially regarding the bigger pet birds and hookbills. Finches do benefit from the vitamins, minerals and amino acids and probiotics some manufacturers include in the diets. Always have given seed along with the pellets plus the chitted seed... vitamin minerals supplement is done once a week if the finches are eating the pellets.

What ever works for your birds and you, to give pellets or not to give pellets!!!!

[Stuart whiting]

Stuart a lot of studies and research go into most quality pelleted food as with dry dog kibble and cat kibble, some have different formulations depending on the birds' needs and species. Most pelleted food is targeted towards hookbills though some companies like Zupreem, Roudybush, Lafebers and Goldenfeast (organic) do have finch and canary pellets.

I have been a big pellet promoter especially regarding the bigger pet birds and hookbills. Finches do benefit from the vitamins, minerals and amino acids and probiotics some manufacturers include in the diets. Always have given seed along with the pellets plus the chitted seed... vitamin minerals supplement is done once a week if the finches are eating the pellets.

What ever works for your birds and you, to give pellets or not to give pellets!!!!

Hi Cindy,

PM reply has been sent

I think maybe if I could ever get enough birds to eat pellets I then suppose it may not be as much of a bad idea especially if they were high in the protein and with all the necessary vitamins supplements added etc,

I'd then perhaps use them as a form of rearing food formula,

Yes I think that could be more feasible about using the pellets primilary for hook bills / grasskeets etc as this probably helps to stimulate the birds and keeps them active and stop them from becoming bored by having the varied diet,

just a thought

[Sojourner]

Stuart whiting

Dude, you can see it as throwing up road blocks if you want, but its really a reality check. I would much rather unigender cages and I would prefer all males, but that is unlikely to happen for me given I have yet to find an actual breeder anywhere in this rather large town, let alone one who will pre-separate the genders for me. So when I talk about what to do with the "extra" birds, it is because I have to buy them blind (as to gender). It isn't practical for me.

As for exhorting me to stick to "beginner birds", my mother raised finches and canaries while I was growing up - and given she was nearly totally bed ridden, that meant *I* was actually caring for them. That was 50+ years ago. Since then I have kept other birds off and on, mostly cockatiels. I had to leave a dozen cockatiels behind when I left Puerto Rico due to not wanting to put them through quarantine.

Given that much of my experience with finches is decades old, I came onto this forum with a "beginner's mind". I have since regained confidence and feel I am pretty well up to date by now.

However I'm not a beginner and haven't been for over 40 years (we won't count the first few years of dealing with my mom's birds).

So while I undoubtedly WILL "learn as I go along", because only stupid people don't, I'm not starting from anywhere near zero.

And it's "honest" with an H. I have noticed you always leave the h off. I assume its some kind of joke.

I like Bengalese because they are active and intelligent, not too noisy and not aggressive. Not because they are "beginner" birds. I still hope to manage some owls and Javas eventually, now that I've had some confirmation that they don't actually need to have live food.

As for the utility of pellets - given I have never had a bird or seen a bird who would touch them even if they were starving (my rescue male was ostensibly being fed on pellets because that was store policy, but someone had clearly been dumping seed on top of the untouched pellets), I'll never bother with them.

Besides that, I have yet to find a single properly designed and carried out peer reviewed study that shows any benefit from them whatsoever - to the birds, that is. Any vet that recommends them had better come up with peer reviewed studies - CONTROLLED, well designed peer reviewed studies - that show that they are better than a good variety of seed and fresh fruits and veggies.

If they can't show me that and still insist on pellets, I'd be looking for another vet PDQ.

The main ingredient on every type of pellet I have ever seen is corn. Corn is cheap. However it is far from natural for finches and unless someone can provide scientific evidence that a completely foreign food is better for my birds AS THE MAIN PORTION OF THEIR DIET (eg their staple feed) than the seeds that naturally make up the main portion of their diet I wouldn't even consider feeding it based on that one fact alone. But then there's the whole birds-won't-touch-them-anyway thing, so its a moot point.

[Stuart whiting]

Sojourner

No disrespect fella but one is actually trying to give you some advice,

You seriously need to kerb yer attitude and sarcasm if you want further help,

Onestly...Honestly....yes mate I can take a joke but the attitude...NO

As regards to finding breeders who can sex bengalese any serious bengalese breeders who are worth there salt should be able to sex these birds, there not that difficult

I don't know of any decent breeder who can't sex em, there no different to sexing canaries so I'm sure if you done a bit of research you should be able to find some breeders that are confident with there birds

[Babs _Owner]

Sojourner

I've been able to go to our local PetSmart and I have a trick to sexing the societies. Hasnt let me down yet. I take a folding chair with me, I inform the staff I will be observing the birds and I quite simply sit down and watch. The females in those places (and I desperately needed a hen for my male Kojax ) usually already have eggs in those wicker baskets. I watched to see who spent the most time in the nest.

When I found one consistantly sitting, I told the staff I wanted her, they said "how do you know its a female?" I told them to put their fingers in the nest, and sure enough she pulled out 5 freaken eggs. The look on her face as she pulled out egg after egg was priceless. The cage was up high, she needed a ladder to get the eggs out.

While I was watching I saw 3 of the 6 birds singing. Theres your males. ;) It took about 35 minutes to figure out the sexes on 4 of the 6 birds.. Simply spend some time watching the cage....the males WILL puff up and sing. Buy them. Go back in a few days to check and see if more are singing. If no more are singing, wait until they get their next shipment and rinse and repeat.
I hope this helps.

Now if I need/want another society I can breed my own. You already know how much I adore those little guys. When they arent breeding they are sitting on dummie eggs. And my 3 hens will sit on fake eggs for over two months without laying again.

Keep in mind, you can get a hen and produce your own males. Simply sell the females and keep the males once they start singing. You'll have a bunch of males in no time. I had an all boys cage mid-last year of all my own bred birds. Miss those guys They were rehomed to make room for the gouldian juveniles in the winter.

[Sally]

Please keep this discussion civil. If anyone has a problem with what someone is saying, please report it to the moderators or report the post, don't turn it into a public discussion. There is a red exclamation point in the lower right-hand side of each post, this is the report feature. No one should be telling anyone else what they should or should be doing, or should or shouldn't provide for their birds, or even what kind of bird they should keep. All any member here should be doing is telling about their own program, stating what works for them. It is up to each member to work out their own program. I don't know how many times I have had to say this, and I wish this would be the last time, but I doubt it!

And please stay on topic. It is disrespectful to the original poster to hijack their thread and go off topic.

[slwatson]

camorrow

Hi! I actually buy finch seed in 25 lb bags from Jones Seed Company. If you spend over $50, you get free shipping. I get the all natural finch blend...I haven't had any issues so far. It has White Proso Millet, German Millet, Oat Groats, Red Siberian Millet, Canary Grass Seed, and Red Proso Millet in the mix. I haven't noticed anything but hulls in my seed hoppers. Then I make my own egg food, mix in a good quality dry egg food to dry my mix out, and I offer lots of chopped greens and alternate between carrots, broccoli, and cauliflower chopped up and added in. My finches have never really liked fruit, so I don't offer it anymore. I do add pellets in with my parrotlets food mix, but not my finches. They seem content with their seed. I also have a vitamin mix and herb salad offered daily. I hope this helps!

[Stuart whiting]

Babs

Certainly the best way to be sure in the sex of what you are buying,

This is exactly what I'd do, if I'm buying birds I'll have all the time in the world and definitely won't rush, observing the birds for as long as possible is everything

[Sojourner]

Sojourner

I've been able to go to our local PetSmart and I have a trick to sexing the societies. Hasnt let me down yet. I take a folding chair with me, I inform the staff I will be observing the birds and I quite simply sit down and watch. The females in those places (and I desperately needed a hen for my male Kojax ) usually already have eggs in those wicker baskets. I watched to see who spent the most time in the nest.

When I found one consistantly sitting, I told the staff I wanted her, they said "how do you know its a female?" I told them to put their fingers in the nest, and sure enough she pulled out 5 freaken eggs. The look on her face as she pulled out egg after egg was priceless. The cage was up high, she needed a ladder to get the eggs out.

While I was watching I saw 3 of the 6 birds singing. Theres your males. ;) It took about 35 minutes to figure out the sexes on 4 of the 6 birds.. Simply spend some time watching the cage....the males WILL puff up and sing. Buy them. Go back in a few days to check and see if more are singing. If no more are singing, wait until they get their next shipment and rinse and repeat.
I hope this helps.

Sorry, I didn't see this until just now.

I do watch them at the pet store but I'm not good enough to be able to tell gender by watching. Or perhaps not CONFIDENT enough. I watch for behavior and to try to identify who's paired up, or who's a trouble maker, or who's in trouble. I don't think I ever spend less than a couple of hours doing that. It did get me a free bird once!

Anyway they keep them in those stupid aquariums behind yet more glass walls, I can't hear a peep.

Though now that I think of it, when Bambi starts singing, he gets funny-shaped. Don't know how to describe it. He sort of crouches down and stretches his head up. Sort of like if you had a round ballon with air in it and glued the bottom part to a table (hanging on to a perch, eh), then pinched off a little ball on the upper part and PULLED - the "neck" stretches out and the bottom part gets sort of stretched and pointy where it meets the "neck" (where you would be pinching).

I cannot recall ever seeing Pyewacket, my hen, do anything similar, even when she was sort of singing when she was still a juvenile.

So is it safe to assume females never assume that posture? If so, I guess maybe I COULD tell who's male, if they are singing, even if I can't hear them.

Now I'm wondering if other finch species get funny-shaped when they sing ...

[Sojourner]

SOME PICTURES of funny-shaped singing male Bengaleses finches:





Normal posture:



I thought of a better description - when Bambi is singing, his body takes on the shape of a sack of grain being dragged along the ground. LOL!