Bugs!

Learn what to feed your birds.
Shannylee
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Bugs!

Post by Shannylee » Sun Aug 21, 2016 10:18 pm

I was feeding my Javas...my only birds that are the least bit interested in anything moving...not so cheap mealworms. I have a no-meat compost pile that produces bazillions of black soldier fly larvae that the wild birds go nuts over. I harvested a bunch of the smaller ones and my Javas devoured them. I don't have to clean the larvae with meal or bran because the larvae only feed off of grass clippings and vegetable scraps from the kitchen.

Watching the Javas spot the moving critters is hilarious. They tilt their heads and look at it with one eye. Then they both jump in the bowl and fight over who gets the most.

Harvesting larvae (despite the "cleanish" conditions) is a love act that only a bird parent can understand. I can't hold those nasty buggars in my hands. They go in a bowl so their pokey mouth thingies don't touch me. (((shudder)))
~Sharon

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Stuart whiting
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Re: Bugs!

Post by Stuart whiting » Mon Aug 22, 2016 12:32 pm

Shannylee

Hi Sharon, glad to here that yer Javas are taking a liking to the maggots,

I personally only use maggots when it comes to rearing me birds as I don't really like the use of meal worms,

The maggot has got far more protein than what any meal worm will ever have and the problem with meal worms is that they actually absorb the calcium levels from the birds which is not exactly a good thing as when breeding I want to give extra calcium and not take it away.

There is I admit an art to feeding and keeping maggots especially if they been bred on meat carcasses etc as most commercial maggot farms here in England are,

Providing the maggots are cleaned through properly for 3-4 days then there is absolutely no problem, I use a Maise meal powder rather than use bran as I find this is better overall.

I used to culture fruit flies for quite some time over the years but I don't even bother with this now as I've done a fair bit of reaserch and found that the nutritional value of fruit flues are very low and would need an awful lot to make it worth while,

Maybe something for others to look into and will probably see where I'm coming from,

Birds need a good bit of protein when it comes to rearing with live food and I've onestly found that for waxbills and other small finches maggots and not forgetting just as importantly the smaller pinkie maggots certainly fit the bill,

Many British finch breeders here in England swear by the use of maggots and pinkies including meself :-BD

Shannylee
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Re: Bugs!

Post by Shannylee » Tue Aug 23, 2016 2:07 pm

Stuart whiting, the whydahs discovered the deliciousness of the larvaes yesterday too. :-D
~Sharon

Orange Cheeked Waxbills, Gold-breasted Waxbills, Societies, Gouldians, Bronze Winged Mannikins, Spices, Canaries, Javas, Pin Tailed Whydahs, too many Koi to count, a husband, and a rescue puppy!

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Re: Bugs!

Post by Stuart whiting » Tue Aug 23, 2016 2:45 pm

Shannylee

That sounds good Sharon, at least the whydahs can become a little bit used to taking some available live food if it ever comes to the stage that they may wanna breed,

However word of warning is that whydahs are not the easiest of birds to breed, they will obviously need more live food when rearing and in some cases some breeders use the common waxbill in conjunction with the whydahs,

The waxbills are known as parasite brooders
A bit like the cuckoo,

Common waxbills will make a nest and lay there eggs and then the whydahs will lay their eggs in the waxbills nest and then the waxbills will bring up any whydahs that hatch out aswell as their own waxbill young :mrgreen:

Must admit that I do like a whydah :-BD

Shannylee
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Re: Bugs!

Post by Shannylee » Tue Aug 23, 2016 4:30 pm

Stuart whiting, the whydahs are in love. She peeps at him and does a little booty dance and he does his mid-flight fancy dance for her. They don't sit next to each other yet but that's mostly because neither one of them sit for long. They are BUSY birds! :lol:

I put one of the mannikin nests (less the mannikins) in the whydah flight cage to see what happens. If they lay eggs, I will move the eggs into the society nests in the aviary. I'm not really expecting to successfully breed them though.
~Sharon

Orange Cheeked Waxbills, Gold-breasted Waxbills, Societies, Gouldians, Bronze Winged Mannikins, Spices, Canaries, Javas, Pin Tailed Whydahs, too many Koi to count, a husband, and a rescue puppy!

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cindy
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Re: Bugs!

Post by cindy » Tue Aug 23, 2016 4:47 pm

Feeding live food from outdoors that has been feeding on decaying food can open your birds up for parasites and bacteria... keep an eye on them for signs of illness especially since wild birds are eating in the areas you are collecting the larva from.

Best to either get your food source from a good pets supply place and start your own colony feeding from a clean food source. Putting your live food in a clean substrate for a few days before feeding is a good idea, it cleans them off.

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Re: Bugs!

Post by Stuart whiting » Tue Aug 23, 2016 8:15 pm

cindy absolutely agree, I've always purchased me maggots from quality fishing bait shops, I'm a specialist match angler meself and so tend to use the better fishing shops where they do look after the bait " maggots " properly IE they will seive and clean em ,

Once I've got them home I re-seive them again and place em in a Maise meal powder for a couple of days to clean them through, once the black gut line has gone from the maggots they are then safe enough to use,

Before the maggots are cleaned through the black gut line is actually decaying meat, this in turn can cause botulism if fed to the birds in this state hence why all maggots fed must be cleaned through first,

Many people are put off from using maggots but if prepared properly they really are ok to use ,

Always remember that it doesn't cost anything to prepare clean live food :mrgreen:

I'd onestly use maggots a lot more than I'd use mealworms, firstly mealworms cost about £3.00 for 1/8 th of a pint ( dear ) whereas for £3.00 I can get 1 pint of maggots....
8 times more than the mealworms which is a massive difference, for 1 pint of meal worms it'd cost me £24.00 which to me is rediculas :-O

Hence why I use the maggots and in the breeding season I'd need a good few pints of em which is far cheaper than mealworms,

The other problem with mealworms is that they absorb the calcium levels from the birds when fed which is why many people dust the worms in calcium powder which I suppose helps a little,

I've also found that the shell on mealworms are a lot harder and crispier than maggots and when being fed to very young birds within the first few days are not as effective, only the White skinned mealworms are often favoured but there's never enough of the new fresh white ones in a tub of mealworms.

I've been experimenting and using live food for many many years now and this is one of the reasons why I've now resorted to the use of maggots,

If I could ever get termites I'd then definitely use these like they do in Aussie but unfortunately we don't have here in England and is why I use the humble maggot :mrgreen:

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cindy
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Re: Bugs!

Post by cindy » Tue Aug 23, 2016 9:13 pm

Stuart, I know a very old time finch breeder, he told me many, many years ago breeders use to toss a fish head in and let flies lay eggs in it, and the birds would eat the larva as they hatch...not the most sanitary, kind of gross but that is what they did way back when....now there is so much more know about parasites and illness now, preventatives and better ways to feed.

I also mention to folks if they ask about feeding dried mealworms, mealworms have a hard exoskeleton as you mentioned, when fed live the bird typically "suck out the insides leaving the exoskeleton. When feeding dried the bird consumes the dried insides and the exoskeleton.... it is rough and sharp and can irritate the GI tract of the bird.... some folks have seen sort of a gritty splat dropping after feeding whole dried mealworms, my suggestion would be grind the dried mealworms and add them to eggfood or sprinkle over soft foods.

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Re: Bugs!

Post by Shannylee » Tue Aug 23, 2016 9:19 pm

cindy, thank you! I didn't even think about the wild birds and what they might be carrying. I'll leave the bugs in the compost to the wild birds and figure out another source of "clean" bugs for my babies.
~Sharon

Orange Cheeked Waxbills, Gold-breasted Waxbills, Societies, Gouldians, Bronze Winged Mannikins, Spices, Canaries, Javas, Pin Tailed Whydahs, too many Koi to count, a husband, and a rescue puppy!

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cindy
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Re: Bugs!

Post by cindy » Tue Aug 23, 2016 9:55 pm

Try this site... I know breeders that use Pheonix worms. http://www.rainbowmealworms.net/

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Sally
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Re: Bugs!

Post by Sally » Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:33 pm

Phoenix worms are black soldier fly larvae, it's just a fancy name for maggots, since Americans seem to be so put off by maggots. The biggest problem in getting maggots from bait shops here is that they are so big, while most finches prefer the small ones. If you google black soldier fly, you will find that quite a few people are colonizing them to feed to fish and now birds. I have yet to find a source for frozen maggots in the U.S., but according to some reading I've done, those who are raising maggots for their own use freeze them for use over the winter.
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cindy
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Re: Bugs!

Post by cindy » Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:39 pm

One of the breeders I know raising Gren and various African species uses the Phoenix worms AKA maggots, she has had good luck breeding her birds.

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Re: Bugs!

Post by Sally » Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:48 pm

Yes, she is using the Phoenix worms, but that can get quite expensive. $48 for 1000 plus shipping, which doesn't last long with waxbills, at least it didn't with mine. I can get 20,000 mini mealworms for less than $100, and I can keep them at that size in the fridge for quite a while.
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cindy
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Re: Bugs!

Post by cindy » Tue Aug 23, 2016 11:11 pm

That is what I did Sally, we had a mealworm colony going here at one time.

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Stuart whiting
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Re: Bugs!

Post by Stuart whiting » Wed Aug 24, 2016 5:49 am

cindy wrote: Stuart, I know a very old time finch breeder, he told me many, many years ago breeders use to toss a fish head in and let flies lay eggs in it, and the birds would eat the larva as they hatch...not the most sanitary, kind of gross but that is what they did way back when....now there is so much more know about parasites and illness now, preventatives and better ways to feed.

I also mention to folks if they ask about feeding dried mealworms, mealworms have a hard exoskeleton as you mentioned, when fed live the bird typically "suck out the insides leaving the exoskeleton. When feeding dried the bird consumes the dried insides and the exoskeleton.... it is rough and sharp and can irritate the GI tract of the bird.... some folks have seen sort of a gritty splat dropping after feeding whole dried mealworms, my suggestion would be grind the dried mealworms and add them to eggfood or sprinkle over soft foods.
Mmm.....funny that you mention that cindy, I would never use dried mealworms for that very reason but I have also considered about blending them up and putting in with an egg food mix, this is something I've actually been thinking about for quite some time now :-BD

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