Commercial egg food

[cindy]

The grit that caused the impaction I mentioned regarding a bird that passed was the blue mineral grit. That is why we advise grinding it to a powder if you feel you need to use it.

Gravel/small pebbles usually sold in a box for keets should never be used.

[Sally]

cindy If you are talking about Abba's mineral mix as the blue mix, I used to use that and loved it. The only reason I stopped using it is because it is cheaper for me to get oyster shell at the feed store and make up my own mix, similar to Roy Beckham's. If I only had a few birds, I'd probably still be using Abba's mix, I never had a problem with it. I did grind it up smaller, just as I do the oyster shell I get at the feed store. As Roy has said, when birds are getting impacted, it is not from the grit itself but from a underlying gastric problem. It is easy to blame the grit, but that most likely was not the problem. Normal birds simply don't overeat grit IMO. I don't think we should scare people away from using Abba's mineral mix.

[cindy]

Sally, the blue grit that was taken in by the owner's bird happened to block the crop from emptying, the bird kept eating seed because it was not getting nourishment due to the crop could not empty, it starved to death. It did not over eat grit. Took very little to cause the blockage. It was not an impaction of a gizzard which grit can cause even in a healthy bird.

Not trying to scare people off but when you see a dead bird laid out, crop full of seed, bird starved because blue grit blocked the crop from emptying correctly it is more of a warning. Same with Charcoal.... vet has said not to use either.

Higgins and KayTee also make blue grit

Bird Supply sells powdered/ground oyster shell 5 lbs at a reasonable price.

[Sally]

How many hundreds or even thousands of birds are eating the Abba mineral mix without problem? I still say that an occasional loss should not scare people away from using a perfectly good product.

[cindy]

How many people loose birds and do not know exactly why the bird died.... most do not look into why they lost the bird... necropsy is expensive and most choose not to do it... some do not know what to look for...maybe more are passing from what we are feeding our birds and we do not know it.

I also know of two cases that crushed eggshell has gotten lodged and tore the intestines of the birds, birds bled out internally, passing blood and they died a painful death.

As mentioned it is advised/suggested if you feel you need to use grit powder it, better to be safe than sorry....same with crushed egg shell especially if giving it to parent birds feeding babies.

Not suggesting not to use the product but maybe change the way it is served.

The Use of Grit
Grit is finely ground stone or shells. This mineral is needed by some birds to aid in digestion. However, these birds eat their seeds whole and have special organs to deal with the grit. Psittacines and finches shell their seeds before eating them, so they do not require grit; in fact, impactions of the crop, ventriculus and proventriculus in Psittacines and finches may be caused by the consumption of grit. The charcoal in grit interferes with absorption of Vitamins A, B2 and K, and it leads to hepatopathy (liver disease), pancreatitis (inflammation of the pancreas), renal dysfunction and general malnutrition. Grit should never be given to birds in the parrot/finch family. (DO NOT GIVE CHARCOAL while treating with medication or preventatives, it will absorb the medication/treatment)

[Stuart whiting]

The grit that caused the impaction I mentioned regarding a bird that passed was the blue mineral grit. That is why we advise grinding it to a powder if you feel you need to use it.

Gravel/small pebbles usually sold in a box for keets should never be used.

Absolutely agree, well said

[Stuart whiting]

Sally, the blue grit that was taken in by the owner's bird happened to block the crop from emptying, the bird kept eating seed because it was not getting nourishment due to the crop could not empty, it starved to death. It did not over eat grit. Took very little to cause the blockage. It was not an impaction of a gizzard which grit can cause even in a healthy bird.

Not trying to scare people off but when you see a dead bird laid out, crop full of seed, bird starved because blue grit blocked the crop from emptying correctly it is more of a warning. Same with Charcoal.... vet has said not to use either.

Higgins and KayTee also make blue grit

Bird Supply sells powdered/ground oyster shell 5 lbs at a reasonable price.

Again I absolutely agree, this is one of the many stories that I've also heard about blocking the birds system,

Definitely not a good item to use and is why I'd personally never use such products for that very reason

[Stuart whiting]

How many hundreds or even thousands of birds are eating the Abba mineral mix without problem? I still say that an occasional loss should not scare people away from using a perfectly good product.

This is simply a matter of each to there own but at there peril

[Stuart whiting]

How many people loose birds and do not know exactly why the bird died.... most do not look into why they lost the bird... necropsy is expensive and most choose not to do it... some do not know what to look for...maybe more are passing from what we are feeding our birds and we do not know it.

I also know of two cases that crushed eggshell has gotten lodged and tore the intestines of the birds, birds bled out internally, passing blood and they died a painful death.

As mentioned it is advised/suggested if you feel you need to use grit powder it, better to be safe than sorry....same with crushed egg shell especially if giving it to parent birds feeding babies.

Not suggesting not to use the product but maybe change the way it is served.

The Use of Grit
Grit is finely ground stone or shells. This mineral is needed by some birds to aid in digestion. However, these birds eat their seeds whole and have special organs to deal with the grit. Psittacines and finches shell their seeds before eating them, so they do not require grit; in fact, impactions of the crop, ventriculus and proventriculus in Psittacines and finches may be caused by the consumption of grit. The charcoal in grit interferes with absorption of Vitamins A, B2 and K, and it leads to hepatopathy (liver disease), pancreatitis (inflammation of the pancreas), renal dysfunction and general malnutrition. Grit should never be given to birds in the parrot/finch family. (DO NOT GIVE CHARCOAL while treating with medication or preventatives, it will absorb the medication/treatment)

Well I'm with you Cindy on this one, exactly what we was discussing the other night,

After all of the tried and tested mineral grits and charcoal etc that are out there and the damage that it can cause to various birds I know for definite that I'd rather stear clear of such products,

There's enough info on the continuesly updated internet that clearly states how grit should not be used for finches, canaries, budgies and grasskeets etc

All of these birds hull there seeds so in hind sight they don't need grit

However if one really does feel that there birds need an aid for digestion then a fine oyster shell is far better to use as this obviously dissolves from the birds fluid acids aswell as consuming a certain amount of calcium

[cindy]

I never pointed my finger at one specific manufacturer of "grit" (and there are many) that caused this issue but merely are suggesting grind it in a coffee grinder to avoid the possibility of something awful happening, it just takes one /mishap/death for you to realize just because you think the product needs to be given in the form it is to realize the risks.

Oyster shell is sharp, large like crushed egg shell and can also tear the gut lining and GI tract. Grinding it decreases that possibility.

as mentioned there is a 5 lb bag you can buy from Bird Supply of NH that is very fine if you feel you must use oyster shell https://www.birdsupplynh.com/catalog/pr ... 9a3737159e

[Stuart whiting]

cindy

Yep I'm inclined to agree there aswel, very true and wise words,

One of the very reasons why I also try to get my oyster shell as fine as possible,

Also any small pieces of egg shell could be fed to baby birds in the nest when the parents are feeding egg food, why others seem to think it's a good idea to mix the shell in with their egg food is beyond me.

I'd never use egg shell when rearing as you rightly say that all it takes is for any small sharp pieces of shell to tear the baby birds lining of its throat whilst being fed in the nest

I do use oyster shell purely for calcium purposes but this I make so fine it's almost like powder, this can be fed on its own or then mixed with various foods because it's now so fine

[cindy]

Stuart... this is the xray of a fledgling that died a very painful death due to eggshell being mixed in egg food..... the bird is mine (this happened a few yrs ago, since I stopped giving crushed eggshell as per my avian vet)

The baby ingested/was fed boiled egg with eggshell, the eggshell became lodged in the GI tract, tore the lining, red blood drained from the vent, baby writhed in pain, it died.

Our daughter came over (she works with our avian vet) took the body to the office and did an x ray on the baby....called me and asked if I fed anything that would show up as a solid opaque object on the xray... told her eggshell in the egg food....she told the avian vet and she said to stop doing that asap, it will lodge and tear the gut lining as can oyster shell.

Same thing happened to a friend of mine, they opened the adult bird up and the egg shell fragment was lodged and cut the GI tract.

If I do use the egg shell it is ground to a powder for laying hens and put in finger cups or a small dish.

People tend to overdo calcium supplements in the water, via eggshell and oyster shell, soft foods...it is in most vitamins, pellets. If using pellets/vitamins/minerals that contain calcium and D3 that contain it and your hen is nesting start a calcium supplement at half dose but stop it when she stops laying eggs.

If not supplying vitamins/minerals or pellets do the same as mentioned above but full strength .All indoor birds not supplied direct unfiltered sunlight need D3 supplement.

[cindy]

Article written by a well known and very respected Avian Vet in our area, she has many articles on the internet as well... her statement on grit, Margaret A. Wissman, D.V.M., D.A.B.V.P

"14. Grit is Not Required By the Normal, Healthy Psittacine or Passerine Bird

Grit, usually defined as a granular, dense, insoluble mineral material (generally granite or quartz), is required for birds that consume whole, intact seeds. Examples of some birds requiring grit are pigeons, doves, free-ranging gallinaceous species (Red Junglefowl, Common Turkey, Helmeted Guinea Fowl, Domestic Fowl, quail, megapodes, pheasants, grouse, and more) and ostriches. Notice that parrots, canaries and finches aren't on the list. The smaller psittacines (budgies, cockatiels, lovebirds and parrotlets) may overeat grit when they aren't feeling well, and this may result in an impaction of the gizzard. Psittacines and passerines will get all the minerals they need from a balanced diet."

Note from me: Most the time you do not realize the bird is not well until it is in the later stage of the illness and you see physical signs.... if the bird was consuming large amounts of grit/charcoal prior to showing of illness it can be in some cases to late if the material is causing an issue for the bird on top of the illness. Birds often hide symptoms until they can no longer do so.

[Stuart whiting]

Stuart... this is the xray of a fledgling that died a very painful death due to eggshell being mixed in egg food..... the bird is mine (this happened a few yrs ago, since I stopped giving crushed eggshell as per my avian vet)

The baby ingested/was fed boiled egg with eggshell, the eggshell became lodged in the GI tract, tore the lining, red blood drained from the vent, baby writhed in pain, it died.

Our daughter came over (she works with our avian vet) took the body to the office and did an x ray on the baby....called me and asked if I fed anything that would show up as a solid opaque object on the xray... told her eggshell in the egg food....she told the avian vet and she said to stop doing that asap, it will lodge and tear the gut lining as can oyster shell.

Same thing happened to a friend of mine, they opened the adult bird up and the egg shell fragment was lodged and cut the GI tract.

If I do use the egg shell it is ground to a powder for laying hens and put in finger cups or a small dish.

People tend to overdo calcium supplements in the water, via eggshell and oyster shell, soft foods...it is in most vitamins, pellets. If using pellets/vitamins/minerals that contain calcium and D3 that contain it and your hen is nesting start a calcium supplement at half dose but stop it when she stops laying eggs.

If not supplying vitamins/minerals or pellets do the same as mentioned above but full strength .All indoor birds not supplied direct unfiltered sunlight need D3 supplement.

I personally think that with this kind of info the questions and answers clearly speak for themselves,

If one wishes to ignore such important information then this will obviously be at there peril,

I know one thing, I'll never use grit, egg shells or charcoal ever as there simply not needed and the pic above clearly proves what can happen.

[Stuart whiting]

Article written by a well known and very respected Avian Vet in our area, she has many articles on the internet as well... her statement on grit, Margaret A. Wissman, D.V.M., D.A.B.V.P

"14. Grit is Not Required By the Normal, Healthy Psittacine or Passerine Bird

Grit, usually defined as a granular, dense, insoluble mineral material (generally granite or quartz), is required for birds that consume whole, intact seeds. Examples of some birds requiring grit are pigeons, doves, free-ranging gallinaceous species (Red Junglefowl, Common Turkey, Helmeted Guinea Fowl, Domestic Fowl, quail, megapodes, pheasants, grouse, and more) and ostriches. Notice that parrots, canaries and finches aren't on the list. The smaller psittacines (budgies, cockatiels, lovebirds and parrotlets) may overeat grit when they aren't feeling well, and this may result in an impaction of the gizzard. Psittacines and passerines will get all the minerals they need from a balanced diet."

Note from me: Most the time you do not realize the bird is not well until it is in the later stage of the illness and you see physical signs.... if the bird was consuming large amounts of grit/charcoal prior to showing of illness it can be in some cases to late if the material is causing an issue for the bird on top of the illness. Birds often hide symptoms until they can no longer do so.

Yep all so very true