Commercial egg food

[Sally]

Enough said on the subject of grit. Each member must make up their own mind as to what they will feed their birds. Even the experts can't agree. I can find just as many vets who still advocate feeding egg shell and/or oyster shell to finches. I tend to follow the advice of successful breeders who have been doing this for many years and whose advice fits into my own program, my own birds. Just my opinion, but I also tend to look on the positive side, I don't spend time worrying about the what-ifs, the might have beens, the down side of keeping every pet. I do the best I can, and I enjoy every minute (well, except maybe cage cleaning, which is akin to litter box cleaning in my book ).

[cindy]

Sally, I guess I see more of the medical end or end results of what does happen... I tend to follow my vet/avian vets' advice since they are the ones that often get to undo or try to fix what is done.

Yes each person needs to do what works for them, In the past I followed what was done by most and had birds that suffered as a result of that method. Each person can take bits and pieces from what they learn from others' experience, using different methods to fit their birds' needs whether it is to not to use it/both, grind the egg shell and oyster shell or using both as is (crushed), long quarantine or shorter, pellets or not pellets, colony breeding or single pair cage breeding, etc.

On the subject of dried egg food....if trying to get your birds to try something new like chitted/sprouted seed try grinding their favorite dried egg food up to a powder and tossing it with the chitted seed. You can add your powdered vitamin, mineral supplment to it also, Mine love this!!

[Stuart whiting]

cindy well said

[Sojourner]

The grit that caused the impaction I mentioned regarding a bird that passed was the blue mineral grit. That is why we advise grinding it to a powder if you feel you need to use it.

Gravel/small pebbles usually sold in a box for keets should never be used.

There are several versions of MINERAL MIX (not grit) that are blue. So we have no idea which one you were using.

Furthermore it is well known that the primary cause of death in a bird who has become impacted is nearly always (I won't say always because every bird that dies is not autopsied) due to an underlying health problem that caused the bird to overindulge in their mineral mix, eg soluble grit that would under normal circumstances have dissolved as a well bird would not have over indulged in the first place.

So there is absolutely no reason to withhold important minerals in a mineral mix because you're afraid it will hurt your bird. If they eat too much of it, they were already ill.

[Sojourner]

Article written by a well known and very respected Avian Vet in our area, she has many articles on the internet as well... her statement on grit, Margaret A. Wissman, D.V.M., D.A.B.V.P

"14. Grit is Not Required By the Normal, Healthy Psittacine or Passerine Bird

Grit, usually defined as a granular, dense, insoluble mineral material (generally granite or quartz), is required for birds that consume whole, intact seeds.

By your own admission, this is NOT what we are dealing with in the ABBA mineral mix (and probably not any of the other "blue" mixes either though I don't know who all manufactures such).

ABBAs blue mineral MIX does not contain insoluble grit. It is 99% crushed oyster/mussel shell. That is SOLUBLE "grit" if you insist on using that term. I don't. "True grit" (pun intended) has always been and forever shall be something hard and insoluble like granite or quartz.

So your argument is specious on its face.

People should not be afraid to use mineral mixes which are made up of soluble components such as oyster shell.

Whether or not you decide to grind the stuff up some more to make the pieces smaller is really beside the point. You are bringing up rare mishaps as scare tactics to try to warn people away from an entire branch of dietary supplements (NOT grit, which is a mechanical dietary aid for only some birds, none of which are finches) that will contribute to the birds overall health and condition in appropriate and important ways.

Sometimes, despite medical intervention, women die in childbirth. So should we start recommending that no woman ever become pregnant? Really?

Saying "Hey, sometimes, even if rarely, a bird can be hurt by a piece of egg or oyster shell that's a little too big and sharp, so it would be a good idea to grind it up a little finer just to be on the safe side" is entirely warranted.

Equating nonsoluble mineral supplements such as ABBA Mineral with "grit" is not warranted at all.

[Sojourner]

Enough said on the subject of grit.

Sorry, didn't see that until I'd already responded with my 5c worth.

Moving along now ...

[cindy]

The blue grit was lodged at the bottom of the Crop (seed could not pass), the grit did not go through the GI tract so it did not even get a chance to dissolve... if you read what I wrote.

And again I never mentioned brand. Higgins & ABBA all make Blue "GRIT" and oyster shell is not always blue either.... not sure where ABBA came from since the OWNER of the bird did not name a brand and neither did I. Believe Sally implied ABBA. I am not putting the product down just stating again to be cautious when using it.

And yes it happened and yes it is a warning, and yes the option of grinding it was given several times (Egg shell also, especially if feeding it to parent birds feeding young) I have seen these birds, the impactions, the crops, even opened up in a necropsy.) This is "not to scare" anyone into not using the blue grit it just use caution. Not sure why the attack.

Think I explained my self well enough after Sally's comment... personal choice to use it or not, to serve it whole or grind it..... and the little stones/pebble like the boxed gravel (some call it grit also as you see in Dr Wissman's quote) is insoluble and should not be used, we are frequently asked if birds like hookbills and finches need that as well... answer is no.

The egg shell incident was my bird. The second egg shell incident was a friend's. The charcoal incident was a friend of mine and I was also there just after the bird was opened up.

[Sally]

Yes, I implied Abba, I didn't realize other companies also had a blue grit, I've only used Abba. My mistake.

[cindy]

Sally I have used in the past the powder oyster shell from Bird Supply of NH (bought it in 5lb quantities) and mixed it with shaved cuttlebone and mineral block.... I have also ground the blue grit in the past... burnt out two coffee grinders in the process until I found one that had the removable cup. There is a gray oyster shell,can not remember who sold it or made it, the pieces were much bigger than the ABBA or Higgins.

I just stopped offering it whole or giving it at all.... the birds have such a varied diet the vet said I am covering their dietary needs well.

[Sojourner]

My guys love their commercial dry egg food, and it is VERY convenient for me since I only have two of them. They will not touch real mashed eggs, or any "wet" food for that matter, including every fruit I've ever offered them.

I don't like the looks of the Quicko as it seems powdery and seems to have a lot of other stuff in it. I use Cece, and while they will eat either, my guys prefer the canary version over the finch version. The canary version seems to be pretty much just egg crumbles while there is other "stuff" in the finch version that actually changes the color of it a bit. Nothing BAD, I'm sure, but I don't prefer the shotgun method of feeding or medicating. I'd rather feed them pretty much one thing at a time (with the exception of their staple feed which is a parakeet blend, their mineral mix which would just be too hard to offer all those minerals one at a time, and their vitamin mix, for the same reasons as the mineral mix).

My guys seem to agree with that outlook.

The Cece stuff is in crumbles rather than powder which I think is a big advantage.

I also give my guys all the ABBA Mineral Mix they want. As they eat it, bits break off and fall back in the cup. They will not eat the powdered leftovers, they have a clear preference for pieces they can manipulate. I think that's the natural way for them to eat.

I have never had a problem with the mineral mix, nor do I know of anyone personally who has. I know this is a hot button topic but I don't see that there is any real reason to avoid the ABBA mineral mix, at least (I've no personal experience with any other brand).

I do examine it regularly looking for large "dangerous" chunks and have never found anything worrisome. I recommend using it, it solves a plethora of dietary problems. I also use Oasis Vitadrops in the water so I can be sure my guys are getting enough D3. They cannot manufacture their own when kept indoors and even the artificial lighting sold to "solve" this problem is of dubious utility.

I think it is pretty unusual to have a problem that could actually be traced back to the ABBA mineral mix itself. Anything we feed our birds MIGHT go wrong - you MIGHT get a bag of seed that had been somehow undetectably contaminated with mold or spores, but it would be unusual. You MIGHT get a bag of ABBA Mineral Mix that had a ginormous piece of oyster shell in it that somehow your bird DIDN'T manage to break up before ingesting it - but it would be pretty unusual.

Birds don't naturally eat powders and powdered ANYTHING carries with it additional (though slight) risks of inhalation that might be harmful. I just prefer to let my birds decide, and thus far, they always come down on the side of crumbles and chunks as opposed to powdered anything.