Fruits And Vegetables To Feed your Birds

[cindy]

likely volume... if you look at like a pie chart.

[cindy]

cindy

I LOVE the alfalfa cube idea! Ohhh I'm going to pick a bunch of those up this weekend! And I believe they are inexpensive as well. Ty!

you might have to break it apart on the outside a bit for the finch... I even chopped some and sprinkles the pieces over the food... you can even grind it and add it to dried egg food too.

[cindy]

cindy Babs

Hi Cindy and Babs,

If memory serves me right, we've tried Zupreem Natural, Zupreem Fruit, Roudybush (some variety for Finches and Budgies), and Kaytee for smaller birds (can't remember the variety).

I tried offering as is, tried smashing them up into smaller bits, but from Canaries and Javas, down to the tiny Goldbreasts and everyone in between, no one showed much interest. Even my Budgies and Linnies didn't really want them after an initial nibble.

Regarding alfalfa... I have bought some alfalfa, orchard grass, grass hay, and timothy hay, and use it in foraging boxes. All the birds enjoy playing with them, chomping on them, adding them to nests, decorating my floor with them, etc.

Elana look for the Roudybush Nibles in the new mix that includes Alfalfa... the ones that were not consuming much of the old formula really like the new... it has a green color to it and should say alfalfa in the ingredients. Also try grinding it in a clean coffee grinder (I have one just for bird stuff) and add it to dried or fresh egg food

[lovezebs]

cindy

We'll see if it's available here, but if they won't eat it, will have to ship it to you... .

[Sheather]

My birds won't eat pellets if they have seed. I only offer one at a time.

[lovezebs]

Sheather

Tried that at one point quite a while ago, when all the hype about pellets came up. They gave me the look (as in, what did we do wrong??? ) and were trying to pick at some seed hulls in the corners of the flights....

It was just too sad to watch.

[Stuart whiting]

Stuart whiting

I do believe that Sally has bred a few different species of Waxbills, by feeding eggs .

I bred my Strawberries, by feeding eggs, mealworms, greens and seeds....

Yes Elana yer absolutely right as Sally as far as I'm aware of has indeed bred some waxbills on egg food, this has been an ongoing target for many years with waxbills specialists but I can practically guarantee that only a few waxbills have been bred using the egg food route,
you'll also may notice from various info that it's only certain waxbills that have been bred on the egg food as their are many waxbills that will simply refuse egg food full stop,

Quite a few times there's been much discussion about the feeding of live food to waxbills and the results that have proved so very successful, Sally has also been involved with the discussions and has clearly admitted that because her waxbills are housed indoors she feels that the use of live food is obviously not to practical for obvious reasons of hygiene etc, this I can fully understand if keeping birds indoors, I'd also think twice about using the live food indoors,

Aswell as this from memory in other posts Sally did also state that she does idealy wish she could use live food for when breeding her waxbills because we all know from experience that if breeding in the right conditions the use of live food for rearing will completely be far more beneficial than using egg food

Be lucky

[Stuart whiting]

Bengalese and canaries are not man-made birds any more than zebra finches - they are domesticated white-rumped munias and Atlantic canaries. Hundreds of generations ago they were taken from the wild just like your waxbills - they didn't just appear on Earth already domestic. Their ancestors were as wild as any zebra finch in the outback. And we can be certain that right out of the wild they certainly didn't breed as easily as they do now, and in the wild they didn't eat prepared foods. The birds which were adventurous enough to eat what we offered and to breed in small cages were those that reproduced - the others died out. A difference is that these birds are less carnivorous than waxbills, making it a quicker process.

Waxbills require protein to rear their young, it does not matter where the protein comes from. The example of Doug's waxbills raising young on easily prepared foods and vegetables versus live insects and wild seed heads (which are not something you can just buy at a store) demonstrates that waxbills do not require live food to raise offspring but that it's simply a result of their upbringing as to what they will feed their young. Wild-caughts and birds raised by those wild-caughts only know to feed their babies bugs. But some of those captive-raised birds will be more open to eating new, unusual foods, and some will eat eggs. Birds raised on egg food will feed their offspring eggfood. This is not only much easier for the average bird keeper to provide, but is the first step in producing lines of these birds which can be much more readily cultivated by the average pet owner, and will more firmly guarantee these species survive in the pet trade as wild imports become less and less frequent. These birds are being kept as pets, not living in the wild. It is in their best interest if they can be fully domesticated.

It's fine if someone wants to raise their birds on wild grasses and insects, and of course in the beginning it's likely going to be necessary, but all it's doing is keeping the birds hard to raise. If the long-term goal is to maintain these species in a domestic population, in the long run the best plan of action would be to transition your captive-bred animals to a less exotic diet.

Our birds are not wild, I don't see the value in going out of our way to feed them wild foods if they can do just as well on more easily located alternatives.

Canaries and bengalese are not man made and are just the same as zebras, don't make me laugh

Of course their man made, bengalese didn't exist in the wild, it was man that created the hybrid of the White rumped munia and by pairing it to a silverbill which then proved to be fertile, the very few examples of these birds were originated from around the areas of Japan,
Same with the canaries, yea sure their is the wild canary but I'm on about all of the other many different fancy breeds for exhibition, yer definitely can't tell me that these aren't man made

As far as diet is concerned I'm not even gonna go there, you've clearly mentioned that egg food is the all of finch rearing and that live food has no place or baring because our birds are in captivity and not the wild, I've never heard so much rubish

Try breeding softbills and just giving em egg food, it's all about giving the birds what is right and what they actually need and more importantly what there used to

[Stuart whiting]

this is a quote from a medical journal... had to use it elsewhere today.... food for though so to speak.... "Many owners ask about what birds eat in the wild with the assumption that “natural” diets would be the best for their pets. Wild birds in Africa , South America , and Australia may be eating various seeds, vegetation, and insects. They are certainly not eating sunflower seeds, millet, and the vegetables found in grocery stores. Even if we could reproduce their natural diet, there are still good reasons why this diet would not be appropriate for our pets. Captive birds are not exposed to the same activity and environmental stresses encountered in the wild and therefore, would not have the same nutritional requirements of wild birds. More importantly, free ranging birds do not live as long as pets. Starvation does occur in nature."

Dylan you said you use Roudybush, have you gotten the new pellet formulation that includes alfalfa yet... they are adding it to all their pelleted diets. My birds love it.

Not knockin Doug's diet but my birds (primarily finches at the time) tired of it, noticed some days they ate less of certain things provided... some days none at all... stopped due to a family emergency and went to simpler way of feeding with my vet reviewing the diet. Most my birds are Australian including a large number of grasskeets.

Once again I totally agree Cindy, especially the last paragraph

[Sheather]

Bengalese and canaries are not man-made birds any more than zebra finches - they are domesticated white-rumped munias and Atlantic canaries. Hundreds of generations ago they were taken from the wild just like your waxbills - they didn't just appear on Earth already domestic. Their ancestors were as wild as any zebra finch in the outback. And we can be certain that right out of the wild they certainly didn't breed as easily as they do now, and in the wild they didn't eat prepared foods. The birds which were adventurous enough to eat what we offered and to breed in small cages were those that reproduced - the others died out. A difference is that these birds are less carnivorous than waxbills, making it a quicker process.

Waxbills require protein to rear their young, it does not matter where the protein comes from. The example of Doug's waxbills raising young on easily prepared foods and vegetables versus live insects and wild seed heads (which are not something you can just buy at a store) demonstrates that waxbills do not require live food to raise offspring but that it's simply a result of their upbringing as to what they will feed their young. Wild-caughts and birds raised by those wild-caughts only know to feed their babies bugs. But some of those captive-raised birds will be more open to eating new, unusual foods, and some will eat eggs. Birds raised on egg food will feed their offspring eggfood. This is not only much easier for the average bird keeper to provide, but is the first step in producing lines of these birds which can be much more readily cultivated by the average pet owner, and will more firmly guarantee these species survive in the pet trade as wild imports become less and less frequent. These birds are being kept as pets, not living in the wild. It is in their best interest if they can be fully domesticated.

It's fine if someone wants to raise their birds on wild grasses and insects, and of course in the beginning it's likely going to be necessary, but all it's doing is keeping the birds hard to raise. If the long-term goal is to maintain these species in a domestic population, in the long run the best plan of action would be to transition your captive-bred animals to a less exotic diet.

Our birds are not wild, I don't see the value in going out of our way to feed them wild foods if they can do just as well on more easily located alternatives.

Canaries and bengalese are not man made and are just the same as zebras, don't make me laugh

Of course their man made, bengalese didn't exist in the wild, it was man that created the hybrid of the White rumped munia and by pairing it to a silverbill which then proved to be fertile, the very few examples of these birds were originated from around the areas of Japan,
Same with the canaries, yea sure their is the wild canary but I'm on about all of the other many different fancy breeds for exhibition, yer definitely can't tell me that these aren't man made

As far as diet is concerned I'm not even gonna go their, you've clearly got it in yer head that egg food is the all of finch rearing and that live food has no place or baring because our birds are in captivity and not the wild, I've never heard so much rubish

Try breeding softbills and just giving em egg food, it's all about giving the birds what is right and what they actually need and more importantly what there used to

Don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say live food has no place. Even domestic birds enjoy it and it is necessary when transitioning wild-caughts. I am saying that first, second generation captive-raised birds which will accept alternatives should ideally be weaned off it as soon as possible and have it replaced by proprietary protein sources (eggfood or dry diets) so that we can produce lines of birds which aren't utterly dependent on eating live insects to breed in captivity, that without them will not raise young or will kill their young. Until then we are only raising wild birds in cages, and they will never be considered a properly domesticated animal. I don't know why the goal, raising captive birds, would be to keep them wild if they could be made easier to care for. I applaud those who are working to produce more domesticated lines of these birds, because this guarantees their future in the pet trade. Birds that are hard to breed, only raise their young if given live bugs and will kill them if disturbed will not last long-term in the pet trade without new wild imports.

Bengalese finches do exist in the wild. They are called white-rumped munias, and the Bengalese is the exact same species except it has been bred calmer, more inclined to breed in cages and with disturbances and into different color varieties. They don't have any silverbill ancestry, this has been disproven with genetic study. Just as dogs are the same species as wolves (which genetic study now overwhelmingly supports), Bengalese are white-rumped munias. Domestic canaries are the exact same species as the wild Atlantic canary (only red factors have some sisken genes and even then after so many generations of back-breeding the only one they retain is the one to allow their bodies to sequester red pigment.)

Society finches, zebras, and canaries all began as wild birds which have been bred in domestic variations. If society finches are man-made, so are all zebras except the small grey ones, white javas, seafoam parrotfinches and anything fawn or pied. The only difference between Bengalese and domestic zebras is how long they have been bred in cages.

[Stuart whiting]

Sheather

Read the origin of the bengalese by the national bengalese fanciers association,
Baring in mind that this is probably regarded as the best bengalese finch club in the world which happens to be in me home country
Many of the officials I know rather well,

You'll discover that the silverbill is definitely mentioned within the bengalese history,

The sharp tailed munia, White rumped munia and the silverbill all exist in the wild, the bengalese DOSEN'T

After all why would anyone call a wild White rumped munia a bengalese, stands to reason that the bengalese was created as mentioned in captivity many years back in the 1800's

[lovezebs]

Sheather Stuart whiting

Sorry for interupting this rather interesting debate, but boys, what pray tell does it have to do with Fruits and Vegetables???

[Sheather]

It doesn't, conversations tend to shift like that, sorry!

[Stuart whiting]

Sheather Stuart whiting

Sorry for interupting this rather interesting debate, but boys, what pray tell does it have to do with Fruits and Vegetables???

Apologies Elana, yer right it dosen't have anything to to with the foods but as Sheather has rightly said that posts at times do tend to wander,

For the record I've actually got nothing against Sheather but we've probably got different views apon birds as a whole but to be fair we're neither right nor wrong in many respects,

End of the day we're all bird men & ladies and we should all be one big happy family ..............

[lovezebs]

Sheather Stuart whiting

No aplogies needed fellas, no harm done, it's just that we were going way off track and heading for a derailment .

Yes, we all share this wonderful hobby, and we all love our birds .