Fruits And Vegetables To Feed your Birds

[Sheather]

Bengalese and canaries are not man-made birds any more than zebra finches - they are domesticated white-rumped munias and Atlantic canaries. Hundreds of generations ago they were taken from the wild just like your waxbills - they didn't just appear on Earth already domestic. Their ancestors were as wild as any zebra finch in the outback. And we can be certain that right out of the wild they certainly didn't breed as easily as they do now, and in the wild they didn't eat prepared foods. The birds which were adventurous enough to eat what we offered and to breed in small cages were those that reproduced - the others died out. A difference is that these birds are less carnivorous than waxbills, making it a quicker process.

Waxbills require protein to rear their young, it does not matter where the protein comes from. The example of Doug's waxbills raising young on easily prepared foods and vegetables versus live insects and wild seed heads (which are not something you can just buy at a store) demonstrates that waxbills do not require live food to raise offspring but that it's simply a result of their upbringing as to what they will feed their young. Wild-caughts and birds raised by those wild-caughts only know to feed their babies bugs. But some of those captive-raised birds will be more open to eating new, unusual foods, and some will eat eggs. Birds raised on egg food will feed their offspring eggfood. This is not only much easier for the average bird keeper to provide, but is the first step in producing lines of these birds which can be much more readily cultivated by the average pet owner, and will more firmly guarantee these species survive in the pet trade as wild imports become less and less frequent. These birds are being kept as pets, not living in the wild. It is in their best interest if they can be fully domesticated.

It's fine if someone wants to raise their birds on wild grasses and insects, and of course in the beginning it's likely going to be necessary, but all it's doing is keeping the birds hard to raise. If the long-term goal is to maintain these species in a domestic population, in the long run the best plan of action would be to transition your captive-bred animals to a less exotic diet.

Our birds are not wild, I don't see the value in going out of our way to feed them wild foods if they can do just as well on more easily located alternatives.

[cindy]

this is a quote from a medical journal... had to use it elsewhere today.... food for though so to speak.... "Many owners ask about what birds eat in the wild with the assumption that “natural” diets would be the best for their pets. Wild birds in Africa , South America , and Australia may be eating various seeds, vegetation, and insects. They are certainly not eating sunflower seeds, millet, and the vegetables found in grocery stores. Even if we could reproduce their natural diet, there are still good reasons why this diet would not be appropriate for our pets. Captive birds are not exposed to the same activity and environmental stresses encountered in the wild and therefore, would not have the same nutritional requirements of wild birds. More importantly, free ranging birds do not live as long as pets. Starvation does occur in nature."

Dylan you said you use Roudybush, have you gotten the new pellet formulation that includes alfalfa yet... they are adding it to all their pelleted diets. My birds love it.

Not knockin Doug's diet but my birds (primarily finches at the time) tired of it, noticed some days they ate less of certain things provided... some days none at all... stopped due to a family emergency and went to simpler way of feeding with my vet reviewing the diet. Most my birds are Australian including a large number of grasskeets.

[Babs _Owner]

cindy Stuart whiting Sheather lovezebs

I love all the information on nutrition and the variation in what people feed their finches.

However I do feed my finches a buffet on occasion of greens and fruits, not only for nutrition, but also for the mental enrichment of the finch. Many finches LOVE the delight of rummaging and sampling all the tastes and textures and nutrients

Owning also a parrot, I understand a bird's need to explore, to sample and be pleasured by new things (as all living beings need).

I would not think a fruit and veggie salad a few times a week is an imbalance for their nutritional ratio.

Some people swear by pellets. But if I were to put any of my birds on a seed-pellet & dried egg only diet and take away the PLEASURE of food and foraging, I think my birds would be most unhappy.

Part of my responsibility (in my opinion) is to keep them happy as well as healthy. And food is a motivating factoring behind curiousity and keeping active.

[Babs _Owner]

Sheather

Dylan, I liked that meditation on the evolution of domestication and food. I love things I can visualize and meditate on.

Food for thought for sure (no pun intended).

[Sheather]

Cindy I haven't gotten any of the new batch, but I am only ordering a small bag twice or three times a year. I notice a handful of the pellets in the bag are green, but most are the old brown formula.

Nonetheless, I love Roudybush, and it is the pellet favored by all of my birds. Canaries, finches, budgies, cockatiels, and doves all eat/ate it no issues. I only use it as part of a complete diet with seed and fresh foods.

[Sally]

Stuart whiting

I do believe that Sally has bred a few different species of Waxbills, by feeding eggs .

I bred my Strawberries, by feeding eggs, mealworms, greens and seeds....

I haven't been breeding for several years, but when I did, my Strawberries always raised their young on eggfood, veggies, spray millet, sprouted seed, and a good finch seed mix. Most of them also liked freeze-dried bloodworms.

I successfully raised Blue-capped Cordon Bleus using the same diet, but with the addition of live mini mealworms. I even had some of that species parent-raise in cages with this diet.

I also believe in a varied diet. I tried the Green Day diet for a while, but I finally decided it was too much sameness, no variety. I've talked to others who had the same experience with it. BTW, that site hasn't been updated in over 6 years.

Diet for our birds is very much a personal thing. Finches will survive on a very basic diet, but will they thrive? I don't want to eat the same meal every day, and I don't think my birds do either. By offering a large variety, they get some choice in the matter. Most of my birds don't go for fruit, so I quit offering it, but I have friends who offer a variety of fruit--I think it is whatever your birds get used to. Some birds will try a huge variety, others are difficult to tempt to even try veggies.

Everyone sets up their own program, what works for them. It also can depend on how much time someone has to spend each day preparing food for their flock. I disagree on the statements that birds don't eat fruit and veggies in the wild--just try keeping them out of your vegetable garden or fruit trees! Darn things love to peck chunks out of my tomatoes, and they also would get to my peaches and plums before I could get them.

Always keep in mind that the internet is full of so-called experts. Unless you know the person involved, or know and respect their reputation, don't assume that just because they talk the big talk, they really know what they are doing. It is up to each of us to research, then try out things for ourselves. We are all bird lovers, and we are all capable of working out a good program for our birds. What is a good program for others may not work for you at all.

I'm also a big believer in providing foraging opportunities for our birds. In the wild, finches spend all day foraging. Captive finches in large aviaries do much the same. How boring it would be for our caged birds to have nothing to do but eat a bit of seed out of a cup each day. So even if they don't clean their plate (or foraging box) of veggies each day, at least it gives them something to do.

[Sheather]

A further example of how I feel that what birds eat is cultural, my first society finches initially didn't like any vegetables until we got a canary who loved broccoli tops, and would eat them down to the stem any time they were offered. After a few days, the finches copied her and soon they loved munching broccoli tops too - but only the tops like the canary ate, they never ate the stems. Soon they had babies and soon I had a flock of a dozen or so, and they were wild for broccoli. After some time, I sold off most and kept just one of the original group, who was paired to a new mate who didn't like broccoli tops... for whatever reason, she liked only the stems, and ate broccoli upside down, ignoring the tops. The original male gradually also stopped eating the tops, and only ate the stems like she did. They had chicks, who shared this unusual preference for stems. Not one of this new flock, raised from this female, would eat broccoli florets, but every one would eat the stem. Total opposite of the first birds.

Fast forward to this year, and that same society has a new mate. After over a year of only feeding the societies only broccoli stems since they didn't touch the florets, I decided a few weeks ago to offer a whole portion again. The female immediately went for the tops, and soon the male too was eating them again like he did as a chick. This current pair are the only societies so far who will now eat an entire piece of broccoli without leaving the top or bottom!

Birds are very attuned to what other birds around them are doing. Thus, not only does the diet a bird is fed as a baby have an impact on adult preferences, but also what the birds around them are eating. I suspect wilder birds would be more likely to raise on egg food if housed with birds like zebras or societies that eat and rear on it reliably - the guy who did the green day diet kept zebras with is waxbills which very likely taught the wilder birds to eat their way. By observing spice finches eating mealworms, I even had a budgie and a dove who tried them and ended up relishing them!

[cindy]

Cindy I haven't gotten any of the new batch, but I am only ordering a small bag twice or three times a year. I notice a handful of the pellets in the bag are green, but most are the old brown formula.

Nonetheless, I love Roudybush, and it is the pellet favored by all of my birds. Canaries, finches, budgies, cockatiels, and doves all eat/ate it no issues. I only use it as part of a complete diet with seed and fresh foods.

When they started the transition to the new ingredient they were only doing the 10 and 25lb bags... I order the 25bl bags and bring in over 200lbs of pellets/formula every 6 weeks). I think slowly they will transition and have all the bags including the smaller bags in the alfalfa... the gouldians surprised me, they love it... as do the shaft tails... the javas eat a lot of it.... grasskeets often pass up seed for it.
Alfalfa is rich in a few vitamins, pleased with the new change.

They did have sample packages they sent out but ran out a while ago, they may have more in... call Roudybush Direct and see if they can send you some in the new formulation.

Hanfeeding formula will remain the same.... they added alfalfatoo it but switched back because the supplier could not bring in enough to change the formulas over to it.... pellets will still contain it.

Used Roudybush for as long as it has been around, tried others but always come back to Rbush!!!!

I too use it in with seed... grasskeets get a 80/20 mix and finches a 50/50 mix.... I use sprouts (sometimes mixed with the Naturally For Birds or a dried egg food). Egg food is supplied to those feeding or molting. occasionally I used broccoli and shredded carrots... some kale. The new alfalfa in the pellets plus some of the herbs in it is reassuring if veggies or sprouts can't be given.... they get what they need from the pellets as my vet told me. Once in a while I will order in some Goldenfeast Australian Blend and use that as well as a treat twice a week. Diet is simple and complete.

Also check out Naturally for Birds... designed around the birds needs. Main supplier in the states is glamgouldians.com I have pictures of what it looks like but can't upload at this time.

[cindy]

what you want the young to eat offer at fledging... they will learn to eat it. I have had parents resistant to certain foods, the young when weaning will try and accept that food.

Something my avian vet told me a while ago... do not worry if the birds do not eat certain veggies as long as the base diet is healthy and meets their requirements they will do just fine. There are days even my conure turns her beak up to veggies... not worried, the vet has examined some of my grasskeets and said they are in good form, good muscle and body mass. She has reviewed what I feed and it is a thumbs up. I prefer chitted seed over store bough produce, very picky what it looks like and where it is brought in from, what country...I avoid all that come in from Mexico, they use pesticides we are not allowed to use here.

[lovezebs]

Sheather Cindy

It's all about "monkey see, monkey do" of the bird world, lol.

When I had some Waxbills housed with some Socies, Zebra and Gouldians, everyone started eating mealworms .

Since they've been moved to different flights, the Gouldians have stopped eating them. The Socies however still love them, and although the Zebras stopped for a while, just recently they've started eating them again. Everybody loves my home made egg food, and new birds pick up on it almost immediately when introduced to the existing flock.

Still no real interest in pellets, I just tried them again some time back. It seems that when offered fresh seed, egg and greens, side by side with pellets, everyone opts for the more natural food (which is fine by me).

[cindy]

For enrichment also try the alfalfa cubes for bunnies and hamsters... gave them to all in my grasskeet room and to some of the finches when I heard RBusuh was changing their formulation... they loved pulling them apart, eating them, pushing them around.... keep an eye on your water cups though some of my scarlets felt compelled to dunk them, they seem to be more inclined than bourkes to dunk foods. Budgies I also found like to dunk.

I do use Broccoli, whole florets with stems or shaved... carrots finely grated or diced in a ninja chopper. Finely grated in long strands, they enjoy playing and carrying them about.

They make a Higgins Fruit and veggie seed mix in two different sizes, good for foraging and mental stimulation as well, it also offers different seeds that are not in the standard mixes, Gouldians love German golden millet... those are offered once or twice a week... trust Higgins, it is always fresh and their plain seed mixes sprout well. I use their egg food, buy Higgins in bulk. I also have growers around us so I can buy fresh grass seeds, variety of millets (some are still a bit green). Try to give a variety during the week. try sprouting the millet strands, they love it.

[cindy]

if not using a pellet make sure you use a good supplement that contains D3 and calcium mixed in the soft foods/veggies.

Elana, what pellets have you tried?

[Babs _Owner]

cindy

I LOVE the alfalfa cube idea! Ohhh I'm going to pick a bunch of those up this weekend! And I believe they are inexpensive as well. Ty!

[lovezebs]

cindy Babs

Hi Cindy and Babs,

If memory serves me right, we've tried Zupreem Natural, Zupreem Fruit, Roudybush (some variety for Finches and Budgies), and Kaytee for smaller birds (can't remember the variety).

I tried offering as is, tried smashing them up into smaller bits, but from Canaries and Javas, down to the tiny Goldbreasts and everyone in between, no one showed much interest. Even my Budgies and Linnies didn't really want them after an initial nibble.

Regarding alfalfa... I have bought some alfalfa, orchard grass, grass hay, and timothy hay, and use it in foraging boxes. All the birds enjoy playing with them, chomping on them, adding them to nests, decorating my floor with them, etc.

[Dave]

At the bottom of the Green Day article, Doug Taylor mentions that he feeds seed, and that it is about 35% of the diet. I don't know if that means 35% by weight or by volume.

Until I read the article, I got the impression from comments above that he wasn't feeding seed. (I was probably reading too fast, I know. This is interesting stuff).

13. Do you also provide seed for your finches? Yes, they always have seed available. Seed is a good source of phosphorous, but it should never exceed 35% of a finch’s diet. Water is also provided, fresh daily.