Charcoal and probiotics

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StodOne
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Charcoal and probiotics

Post by StodOne » Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:22 am

So I was wondering recently what to add to my finches diet and I stumbled upon a few articles that said that finches consume charcoal , I thought about it a little bit and it makes sense as a way to pull out toxins , are there any other benefits from giving them charcoal ? Not sure , I am curious is it important to give them activated charcoal or regular plain charcoal which I have the ability to make myself..
Here there is no such products made for birds so I have to go with either activated charcoal for fish or regular plain old charcoal..
I would also love to know how to prepare it , should I grind it down or let them fiddle with a whole piece?
And my question about probiotics , is it harmful to give finches probiotics if they require an antibiotic treatment but they cannot get one .. Some of you may know my story already why I can't really find any kind of medication..
I digress , my point is I want to make sure that giving probiotics is safe , in my mind there is no reason why it shouldn't be safe as long as it is not from a milk product.
I have gotten this scepticism when I saw a few articles about some kind of theory that birds don't need bacteria in their bowels and honestly it sounds so far fetched and just plain made up .. But I would like to hear if anyone else had experience with these things, thanks in advance.
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Re: Charcoal and probiotics

Post by paul-inAZ » Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:47 pm

I'm curious. What specific illnesses are you encountering in your birds that require charcoal and probiotics for prevention or treatment?

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Re: Charcoal and probiotics

Post by Icearstorm » Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:01 am

StodOne

I have a container of bird charcoal in the flight cage, and they never eat it, although I suppose they might if they eat some bad food, though that should hopefully never happen. It's ground charcoal, but I'll have to see what exact kind it is. Offer charcoal in its own dish so they don't have to eat it if they don't want to; charcoal can interfere with nutrient absorption, so it's not something that should be fed all the time.

Probiotics aren't going to replace antibiotics, and are more useful when an animal is recovering from antibiotics (antibiotics may reduce the amount of beneficial bacteria in the microbiome) or for a human-raised animal that never got fed by the parents. Probiotics should be specific to finches or related birds with a similar diet, or they probably won't be helpful. Like how a human taking probiotics meant for a cow won't work well since we don't eat grass and thus won't benefit from bacteria that can digest cellulose. I wouldn't bother with probiotics unless you have a good reason for using them.

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StodOne
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Re: Charcoal and probiotics

Post by StodOne » Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:24 am

Icearstorm well yes I understand how that all works , was just curious if probiotics would have a negative effect , I know for humans that wether you took antibiotics or not , eating something that naturally contains them is healthy . I know that you need to use probiotics after antibiotics as this will input the positive bacteria that you have lost..
Yes ground charcoal , hmm I was planning to give him the whole piece as cuttlefish bone ..
@paul-inAZ Don't really know , but giving him charcoal will help detox if he does suffer from such thing..
He is kind of lethargic and one of his eyes is a bit swollen , he is very old though and I understand that it comes with time but he just started fluffing up more often then usual , I noticed that his urine when dries out leaves a green coloration , although when he does his business it is clear with no color.
I did find Ivermectin as Icearstorm has suggested but I cannot find it for small birds only for bigger birds and I have no clue how much I should mix it with water .
Either way thanks for helping out , I am sorry for my late response I am working only night shift so it is kinda hard to catch up with everything
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Re: Charcoal and probiotics

Post by StodOne » Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:29 am

paul-inAZ He does sing from time to time , I'm not sure if he could just be bored , recently his partner passed so he is alone, there are other birds in the room tho but not the same species.
Upon closer inspection though he looks like he has trouble passing poop , his vent area is clean but he squats does all the way and it really looks like he struggles , and sometimes he will start thrusting his back portion down a lot after he poops , I understand that this is a way for them to clean their bottom but he keeps doing it very long after he poops..
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Re: Charcoal and probiotics

Post by paul-inAZ » Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:52 am

Getting old is not easy -even for birds.

I don't like to give Ivermectin [or other meds] in drinking water. It is a powerful and potentially dangerous medication. Mixed with water you are never sure how much the bird gets.
I put one drop of Ivermectin directly on the bird's skin on its back.

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Re: Charcoal and probiotics

Post by StodOne » Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:30 am

paul-inAZ yeah if I knew how strong this ivermectin is I would buy it so I would know how much to mix , like this its just shooting in the dark...
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Re: Charcoal and probiotics

Post by Icearstorm » Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:39 am

StodOne

If the probiotics aren't meant for birds, there's a chance that they could be harmful, but I don't know for sure.

Yeah, if it doesn't say what the strength is or is opened, out of date, or otherwise seems off, I wouldn't risk it. It's too easy for things to go wrong.

This is the charcoal that I use. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to say what kind it is.

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Re: Charcoal and probiotics

Post by paul-inAZ » Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:18 am

I use Iverlux which is supposed to be in a concentration for small birds. Its ivermectin 0.9 gm/liter. I use it as a direct application of a drop to the skin beneath the feathers.
A 2 oz bottle costs about $30.

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Re: Charcoal and probiotics

Post by paul-inAZ » Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:43 pm

I failed to add my dosage for Iverlux in water. Treating individual birds can get cumbersome if there are a lot of birds so there are times to consider putting it into the water. Accept that it can be hit, miss, or overdose depending on how much they drink that day.
My crude calculation gives me a dose of 6 drops of Iverlux for every 4 ounces [~125ml] of water.

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