Artichoke and cherries

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Elgolmoon
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Artichoke and cherries

Post by Elgolmoon » Mon May 06, 2019 3:30 pm

Hi, I have a bird with suspected gout and was wondering if anyone had fed their birds artichoke or cherries as both are very good for gout in humans.

paul-inAZ
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Re: Artichoke and cherries

Post by paul-inAZ » Mon May 06, 2019 4:28 pm

I think you are overstating the effect of cherries on gout. "Very good" is way too strong a claim.
Actual studies [not anecdotal reports or the 2 or 3 sponsored by a cherry marketing organization] are based on small numbers and if you actually read the original papers the consensus is that results are suggestive at best to inconclusive.

How was the Dx of gout made? The most reliable test is demonstration of urate crystals in joint fluid. Not easy to do in a bird.

wildbird
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Re: Artichoke and cherries

Post by wildbird » Mon May 06, 2019 10:25 pm

I never heard of giving those foods to birds.

Elgolmoon
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Re: Artichoke and cherries

Post by Elgolmoon » Wed May 08, 2019 11:55 am

paul-inAZ, thanks for your reply. The vet examined him and diagnosed it that way. He’s unable to stand tall, has problems extending his feet flat, is unable to stretch his left leg, struggling to stretch his right, shuffles along his perch, rather than hopping. The vet is an actual avian vet, with 25 years of experience and teaches at Cambridge Uni. She’s the third vet I’ve consulted, the first two professing to treat exotics but then not having a clue. Do you have any suggestions as to what I could try for gout? He was in perfect health and thriving until this began a few weeks ago. He’d almost finished moulting and then suddenly began hunkering down on his perch, and tail bobbing. I immediately treated him for air sac (although have done this regularly), then Ronivet as this helped greatly when I first got him whilst in quarantine. The first vet gave Baytril inevitably, but I could see it was making no difference, second vet prescribed doxy and an antifungal, plus faeces test (still waiting for results), I tried Trimethaprim which seemed to help a little then fizzled out. I have used supplements and the natural approach until this began, using Bob Marshal’s regime and Guardian Angel in times of stress and hate giving him all these drugs but nothing has worked or prevented this from happening. Also hygiene-wise I am scrupulously clean with regards to their environment. The avian vet prescribed Allopurinol and I’m waiting to see the result.

paul-inAZ
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Re: Artichoke and cherries

Post by paul-inAZ » Wed May 08, 2019 12:49 pm

What kind of bird is this?

For openers I'd question the Dx of gout. This in not a straight forward clinical diagnosis.
Elevated serum uric acid is suggestive but the diagnostic gold standard is demonstration of uric acid crystals in joint fluid from a "hot" joint. Unless it is a very large bird obtaining joint fluid seems to be technically very difficult.
Obtaining enough blood to do a serum uric acid level on a small bird is also problematic. Blood level is not a 1:1 correlation and that result can be misleading in both directions.

Gout has for centuries been the subject of all sort of fanciful theories and treatments. Practically all wrong. Magic potions abound. I'd be very skeptical of anything you can buy is a "health" food store. Look at the research data [if any exists] and not the claims. Virtually all of the dietary regimens are also garbage.

There are a couple of drugs for treating a "hot" joint. Colchicine and even butizolidine have been used in people. These are not without serious risk of side effects. In birds???? No idea.
Allopurinol won't do much for a hot joint in the short term but effectively lowers blood uric acid to prevent future attacks.

Keep us posted.

Elgolmoon
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Re: Artichoke and cherries

Post by Elgolmoon » Wed May 08, 2019 3:55 pm

paul-inAZ, thanks for your reply. It’s a Gouldian. The second vet did say he could do blood tests (he doesn’t know about the gout diagnosis) - I should be speaking to him tomorrow - but he said he’d have to anaesthetise Percy to do this and at the time his breathing was much worse (this was before the Trimethaprim) so I decided not to go for it as I really didn’t think he’d make it. Also, it involved taking him to the vets and leaving him there all day. He didn’t look as if he’d survive it. The mobility issues weren’t apparent at this point. They have developed since the breathing improved. I’ll let you know how we go.

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