Gutloading insects

mike · Post by **mike** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:59 pm

In the (yes, I'm bringing it up again) reptile community, all food insects are fed on a well controlled diet. The idea is that mealworms, crickets, roaches are fed a diet that sustains them, but 24 hours before they are used as food, their diet is changed to a high calcium/nutrition diet. The reason being that whatever a feeder insect eats inevitably ends up in the lizard. This is called gutloading. I'm sure I'm not saying anything new. I did a search and I didn't find anything about it on these forums. Do bird keepers do the same thing with the insects they use?

Another question: do you ever use other commercially available insects to feed your birds? e.g.: crickets, waxworms.

B CAMP · Post by **B CAMP** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:03 pm

I guess I could say yes,when I get a shipment of mealworms I put them in plastic cups of bran meal and keep in fridge.,the ones I am going to feed today i keep on the counter and i give them apple or kale,etc to eat for a day before I feed them.I should try to feed the mealys some different things what do you suggest ?

mike · Post by **mike** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 9:19 pm

See the thing is, I don't know much about bird nutrition. From what I've been reading it seems bird keepers have the same concerns as reptile keepers; such as calcium, calcium to phosphate ratios, proper protein, and UV lighting (vitamin D synthesis). I also don't know what sorts of foods are toxic to birds that might not be for lizards. I don't think there should be many though.

So as a gut load I'd use high protein chicken mash, dandelion, kale, and any other high calcium vegetable. Maybe powdered milk. I'd avoid citrus fruits because they rob bones of calcium. I'd also avoid any cellulose fillers, like paper towel (often used for bedding) because these just take up good gut space. On a daily basis I'd supply mealworms with a mixture of grains but on the day I'm prepping them for food, I'd probably keep them in a plastic container with just the vegetables and gut load mixture. I might even throw in small amounts of protein such as fish food flakes.

Before feeding insects to reptiles, they are also dusted with a calcium powder and/or a vitamin powder. Since these powders don't stick well to mealworms, it become very important to provide a good mealworm gut load. Feeding the insects a good diet becomes more complicated than feeding the lizards sometimes!

Of course this is all based on previous experience with herps. Some of this might not be suitable for birds. Finches eat vegetables while most lizards don't. Then again, if gut loading isn't a common practice, maybe it isn't necessary at all. It was just throwing it out there

sean · Post by **sean** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 2:24 pm

Hey Mike,

That is really interesting. I've not heard nor read much about the practice. In theory though, and at first blush, I think the idea makes sense.

On another note, I wonder if the insects were conscious whether they'd enjoy their "last meal?"

CandoAviary · Post by **CandoAviary** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 2:53 pm

I always keep crushed high protein dog kibble with vitanins.... like eukanuba brand...in the bran. That way the worm always are gut loaded. Since I have been doing this my meal worms multiply and grow faster.

franny · Post by **franny** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:28 pm

The only thing I'd hesitate to use would be the powdered milk. I understand that the birds don't handle lactose well? Cheese seems to be OK, but milk too high in lactose...

mike · Post by **mike** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:54 pm

franny wrote:The only thing I'd hesitate to use would be the powdered milk. I understand that the birds don't handle lactose well? Cheese seems to be OK, but milk too high in lactose...

I read about some of the "bad foods" after I wrote that and I saw that milk is one of them. Chicken mash is supposed to be bad too because of the hormones, although I'm sure it's easy enough to find some without the hormones. Finch-zilla.

DVBourassa · Post by **DVBourassa** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:17 pm

mike wrote:
franny wrote:The only thing I'd hesitate to use would be the powdered milk. I understand that the birds don't handle lactose well? Cheese seems to be OK, but milk too high in lactose...
I read about some of the "bad foods" after I wrote that and I saw that milk is one of them. Chicken mash is supposed to be bad too because of the hormones, although I'm sure it's easy enough to find some without the hormones. Finch-zilla.

Chickens aren't fed hormones, that's just a marketing scheme. Make sure any chicken mash is nonmedicated (antibiotic and coccidostats).

fabulousfinch · Post by **fabulousfinch** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:24 pm

Hi Mike,

Yes, many top softbill breeders gutload insects 24 hours before feeding them to their birds. The Australia Zoo uses Mike Fidler's Complete Soft Food to gutload maggots, meal worms and crickets to create super-enriched bugs before feeding them to their softbill collection.

Mike's soft food includes all essential amino acids, vitamins, minerals and carotenoids, and is a complete solution for gutloading live insects for softbills.

Bill Van Patten
Fabulous Finch, LLC
http://www.fabulousfinch.com/Mike-Fidle ... 0-163.html