Please help - New Finch Owner

[Javy]

Hello, my name is David and I'm posting because I have spent two weeks (since I adopted them from a local pet store) relentlessly trying to keep my finches alive with no success. I will describe the situation from start to finish.

I haven't taken care of finches before and just took home four finches two weeks ago. A younger and smaller wax bill in a separate cage and a group of three in a cage that is 1.5' x 1' x 1'10" (zebra, orange cheek and society). I kept them hanging from the ceiling against the wall so the two siamese cats couldn't get to their cages. Feeling bad for the separate finch, I immediately moved him into the cage with the other three and kept a close eye on bullying but didn't realize until afterward that the cage was too small and groups of four are violent... so I woke up only two days later to find orange cheeks very puffed up, eyes closed and still perching on the edge of the water dish. He passed away only a few hours later. It still confuses me though because after examination he showed no signs of having been attacked (such as blood or broken bones), except for a missing toenail. I moved the zebra finch into the other cage just in case as he seemed the most aggressive.

The next day, I notice the society finch breathing very heavy, puffing the feathers on and off, had no energy for exercise like flying around a room but seemed to move around the cage to get food and water, and had a similar missing toenail, so I take him to the vet the day after. The vet recommends baytril in the drinking water for pneumonia. The very same day later a new symptom starts with him breathing through his mouth exclusively. So about ten days pass with the medication, the society and waxbill in the bigger cage and the zebra in the smaller cage. This was because I was nervous of zebra attacking the smaller wax bill if left alone with him, and because the waxbill and society got along very well. After the ten days (in a warm room, 25C) there is no improvement in the society's health and in fact his feathers gradually puffed more and more, he progressively got weaker and breathing more strenuous having to stretch his neck and shake to get his air.

So I call the vet again yesterday and it turns out the same vet is now on vacation until monday. Another, non-expert vet's opinion was air-sac mites to be treated with Nomectin. It was diluted to give him a 0.1ml dose of the dilution every ten days. At this point the society is so weak that he just stands still in my hand and drinks off the end of a needle for 0.1ml. A few hours later he died with a seed in his mouth he might have choked on from weakness.

This same day, yesterday, the zebra finch starts slightly puffing up from time to time, and well before that he seemed to continually overestimate his flight to the perch on the other side of the cage, hitting the side and falling to the bottom over and over again. I didn't regard it as a symptom until yesterday, thinking it was that the cage was too small and I should get a new one (haven't done that yet). So I put him in a hospital cage I made out of the small one and kept him in the warm room for the night.

Now today his symptoms are more prominent. He sits puffed up, eyes closed on his perch. I tried to get him to come out and take the same Nomectin, but he just played dead and wouldn't drink it. While I was trying to catch him out in the room to get him to take it, I noticed that every flight he flew smack into a wall (not very hard, he would try to slow down or turn) in this big room. So the small cage wasn't a problem, but rather it seems his sight is affected or he's disoriented. He is currently sitting on the perch, still puffed up and staying still with his eyes opening and closing. He just fell off his perch a few moments ago which sparked some excitement where he went to his food and ate, and flew around a few moments. His symptoms are very different from the society finch's which is very strange. His beak is closed and there seems to be no respiratory distress at all except for mouth breathing when he flies a little too hard.

So now I don't understand what's going on and there are no vets left in my town who will offer an opinion until the one who said pneumonia comes back on monday. I'm afraid he doesn't have that time. A note on the droppings as I figure they are important... I can't tell the difference between healthy and sick because they have apparently been sick since I bought them, the only day they were healthy was the first and second where I was still just learning and getting used to them. However the droppings seem to be white and yellow which seems normal to me considering bathroom uses #1 and #2... I'm also keeping an eye on them because the two left, zebra and waxbill don't seem to get along like the waxbill and society. They squak at each other but that seems to be all. No real fighting. And I notice now that the zebra seems to act normal again when he moves around for food and drink with his feathers tucked in. The feathers don't look like he's been preening them though, and I have never seen any of the four take baths except for the first day they came home which I find strange.

The zebra can still sing, he just doesn't anymore... and the waxbill has never shown a single symptom (could it be that he was separate from them at the pet store and they acquired him separately?).

I can't figure out what is wrong with these birds and I'm getting desperate because I don't want to see a third one die and leave the waxbill alone. Is there anything more I can do? Can anyone offer a new diagnosis? This whole scenario has been very upsetting...

[DanteD716]

First, separate the zebra from the waxbill and society, zebras are too aggressive. Put a heatlamp on the cages for extra warmth, the birds really do good with it. Try a regular lamp if you don't have headlamps. Also go to ladygouldianfinch.com.and order scatt or S76, start them on a round of either, sounds like you have air sac mites. Its a good thing youre trying to help.

[DanteD716]

Also, offer clean drinking water and stop the other treatments. Make sure the birds can access the food and water. If they survive you'll need larger cages (preferably 30x18) and check out finchinfo (link to your left, toward the top of the screen for compatibility) I hope somebody offers more help, email Lorraine st ladygouldianfinch, she can prescribe better remedies

[Javy]

I can't help but wonder if you read the whole first post as the society finch died and zebra's symptoms are completely different.

[finchmix22]

When there could be several things going wrong, like Air sac mites (ASM), an infection or a fungal or protozoa infections, I use Amoxitex and Ronex 12% at the same time because the finches die quickly at this point, as you've learned. I'm sorry you lost some finches. If you don't have those two drugs, you could order overnight from ladygouldian.com and get 4 in 1 powder, which is a good choice when you're not sure what's wrong. All new finches should get one drop of SCATT or S76 or Ivermectin on their thigh (skin under feathers) to prevent or treat for ASM. Hopefully, you can save the other finches. Keep us posted.

The heat is really important because they don't have the energy to keep themselves warm when they're sick. Put is at one end of (hopefully a larger cage) or at a distance from the one you mentioned, but watch the temp, so they don't overheat. Give fresh water, millet, or electrolyte by beak to help give them strength.

[cindy]

Since you have your cages hung, is there any chance the cages are also getting a draft from air conditioning?

The zebra needs a heat lamp on the cage, a simple aluminum hood with a 40 to 60 degree bulb near a perch were he sits. The extra heat provided will help him reserve his reserves in helping him get better and not using energy up staying warm.


Even though the cages are hung, can the cats jump up and "tag" the cage, this will stress them out, possibly causing them to fly about frantic in the cage, possibly injuring themselves by flying into the cage walls or perches.

[Javy]

finchmix22, I have found Amoxitex, SCATT and S76 on ladygouldian.com under medications, but no Ronex or 4 in 1 powder. Also, it doesn't say on the site but I'm guessing it is the 12% that I'm looking at? I don't have any good lamps which is why I'm keeping the birds in a closed-door "warm room" of 25C. Change the water every day... and basically do all of the essentials. I just want them to get healthy before I invest in a larger cage. I haven't had them that long..

[finchmix22]

There are two sites: ladygouldian.com and ladygouldianfinch.com (which shows up as finchniche.com. The ladies are sisters and the 1800 number will have someone who can help quicker than looking for yourself. Good Luck.

[Javy]

I ordered the Amoxitex, the Ronex 12% and the S76 from ladygouldianfinch.com with your advice. It will arrive in 3-5 days and I will administer it then. Thank you very much for the help! Zebra seems to have improved a fair bit now just from being left alone from me stressing him out over trying to give him that other treatment. He still rests and puffs up on his perch, but he should be strong enough to hang on well beyond the time it will take for the medicine to arrive.

[DanteD716]

Best of luck and keep us posted

[cindy]

Javy, where are you located...sometimes they have distrubitors in certain areas that might be able to get it to you quickly.

I use Rockport Roost Avian Supplies

http://www.rockportaviansupplies.com/medications.html

they are running a 30% discount on medications right now. Keep it in the fridge to get another 6 month shelf life on the meds past expiration.

If you can not find 12% Ronex use 6% Ronex or Ronivet S and double the powder to 1x's the amount of water

[finchmix22]

I hope they do well. Great job trying to get them into good health.

[Javy]

Thank you much everyone, the medication is still on the way and they seem to be doing better. I also have a cage on the way that is more like 60x30x30 which will help them alot.