Juvie scaly face - can S76 work without topical application?

[lyswood]

Hola - me again.

I think one of the babies has scaly face mites - just noticed a yellow crusty area on his upper beak last night - photos from the 10th didn't show it, so it seems quick. Top beak also dips down a bit on the side, so I think that's what it is - he's the one closest to the camera (as-yet-unmolted head):

This is Sheldon - one view of the beak.

Another view of Sheldon's beak.

I'm pretty meticulous about cleaning their cages, so I'm a little bothered by this. They're also on the full Marshall plan and get regular spinach and romaine and other veggies / fruits, so a deficiency would surprise me. Gave them shredded carrots again today and a bit of red pepper for vitamin A, but they should be getting this between the veggies and their weekly supplements. (DufoPlus, Ioford)

This finch - Sheldon - is the happiest, singiest little guy of them all - he is also the last to molt. He has barely started on his head and two of his siblings are done, a third just has to pop the head pin feathers, and the other sister is getting more black dots on her face...progressing slower than the others but way ahead of Sheldon. I'm wondering if this slow molt might signal that there are immune issues and maybe that's why the mites? He just seems happy to be himself - not in any hurry.

Anyway, I tried to catch him last night - this is terrifying, as I've posted before, but I was quite confident. Accidentally caught a different bird rather easily, and nearly had Sheldon five or six times. I had to stop when he became stressed, fluttering his wings and breathing from his mouth. Thankfully it passed quickly but I did not want to try again. He was the only one to get that stressed - again wondering about overall health and worried to put him through more since he's already got a ways to go in the molt. He seems super healthy otherwise.

I treated with S76 in their water and bath water this morning (they haven't bathed yet). I will try to catch him (and sister Penny...suspicious looking beak too) tonight, but if I cannot do it - especially for several days in a row - can the S76 in water only eventually knock these out? I see it suggested in some posts here and other sites - I wonder if it can work, but will take longer? Can I put it in the daily bath water? They usually use the bath every other day or so.

Also, I see varying treatment advice. Laraine says 1 treatment 1 day per week for six weeks or so. Other sites say to treat daily for one week, then once weekly after that until symptoms have cleared. Any thoughts on this?

Starting tonight I'm sanitizing everything in their cage again - I do this every week and spray Scalex or a natural brand (with diatomaceous earth in it) every week, though I have slacked a bit on the seed dishes the last few times...not fully sanitizing, just washing / rinsing.

Really a bummer that this happened, but I'm wondering if Sheldon had it from the nest and it's coming out now that he's trying to molt and maybe has immune issues. The other suspicious beak is on the strongest of the babies - Penny's a fat and sassy and almost friendly hen - hoping she doesn't have it too.

I just can't imagine catching five birds every day for a week - they get SOOO worked up!

The orange head/purple breast hen is Penny - I think her beak is suspicious too:

Sheldon on the end - beak goes down on the side, Penny next to him:

Last question - since I have given them the S76 in the water, if I were to purchase SCATT, could I switch to that for application? Since it requires more infrequent applications, I'm wondering if it would be better. Don't want to overmedicate though.

Summary:
1. S76 - any hope it can still work without applying directly or applying as often as advised?
2. S76 - one day per week or every day for a week?
3. SCATT - can I use this topically after I've already treated with S76 in the water?

As always, thank you so much for any advice you have. Still waiting to do the big move and put all the family together again - have the cage - but obviously it'll have to wait longer until I can get this under control. At this point I'm glad I didn't do it yet.


Thanks again,
Malyssa

[debbie276]

This link may be helpful to you.

https://ladygouldian.com/node/223
Scaly face, apply undiluted S76 or Scatt using a cotton bud (Q-tip) for one day each week for 6-8 weeks or until the crusty patches fall off.

It's not that rare to have "fangs" on birds that do not keep their beak trimmed. You can trim the beak with a nail clipper if you need to.

[debbie276]

Just a bit of information:

http://budgie-bird.info/budgie-scaly-face/
It’s probably more common for parents to pass them to their young because the mites need direct body contact to spread.

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm ... 9&aid=3068
How are knemidokoptic mites transmitted?
The scaly leg mites apparently spend their entire life cycle on the bird. They burrow into the epithelium (top layer of the skin) and form tunnels. The mites are transmitted from bird to bird through prolonged close or direct contact. Some experts feel that the mites are transmitted to the unfeathered offspring in the nest, and will cause disease if the bird is genetically susceptible, stressed, or has a suppressed immune system.

[lyswood]

debbie276 Thanks!! I've been to these in my crazy searching yesterday and last night. Good information. Makes sense if he got them in the nest and they're cropping up now because he might be weaker in some way than the others. He sure seems great in every other way.

I guess my questions are more specific to the medication. As you quoted, the info from Laraine is once per week but several others say 1x/day for one week (like catch them every darn day) then after medicating daily for a week, go to just 1x/week. I'm inclined to go with what Laraine said but was curious why so many others had it the other way. And some sites? Can't even tell WHAT they're saying - very confusing - LOL.

I saw someone posted on this forum (on an older scaly face post) to just add S76 to the water for a couple of days 3 weeks in a row if you don't want to handle the birds, so I was hoping to confirm if that might be effective if I couldn't nab them.

Thinking of switching to SCATT since that's just once every 3 weeks. Of course ultimately I would love NOT to have to catch them at all but I understand that's probably not possible to treat it properly.

[debbie276]

SCATT remains active in the birds blood stream for three weeks.
S76 when diluted in water only remains active for 7 to 8 hours, therefore must be repeated often. Maybe the undiluted S76 stays active for longer but I tend to doubt it.
For ASM after the initial treatment you could repeat in 3 weeks with Scatt, I never have though. Scaly mites are a little bit different so they are recommending once a week till it clears. I'm thinking scaly face is tougher to treat then air sac mites and that's why you need to apply directly to the infected area.

best of luck

[lyswood]

Now I'm second-guessing myself...his beak might be a little better today and I've only given him 2 doses of in-water S76, so it may not be scaly face after all. Waiting for SCATT to arrive in the mail and using that time to just monitor him. I imagine since the S76 is only in their systems for such a short time, that it'll be fine to give him the SCATT Tuesday or so, whenever it arrives.