breeding while molting????

[Sojourner]

So a few weeks ago I noticed my guys were showing signs of molting. And sure enough, I'm starting to find shed feathers. So I've upped the protein and fat content for their feed by vastly expanding their choice of feed. I'm out of egg food (and they won't eat actual eggs), but they have free access to

1. Nyjer, which they have actually started to eat after totally ignoring it for months
2. Sunflower chips
3. hulled hemp
4. Budgie mix (3 or 4 types of millet, oat groats, and canary reedgrass seed)
5. Ch-ch-ch-ch-CHIA (seed)
6. Cuttle bone
7. ABBA mineral mix (mostly crushed oyster shell, plus trace minerals)
8. Vitamins in the water
9. Crushed egg shell - again something they literally totally ignored for month but just started hitting again the past few days

I am rotating:

1. Sesame seed
2. Flax seed
3. cracked wheat
4. Oat bran
5. canary reedgrass seed
6. whole oats in the hull
7. Fennel seed (they eat just a little of this, but they do eat it)

I have, but need to find my spare grinder because the pieces proved to be too big

1. Rolled red wheat
2. Pearl barley
3. buckwheat groats

The only thing I can think of that might be useful to add is poppy seed. I forgot to pick some up the other day. Well, and dry eggfood. They won't eat actual egg. Although - they wouldn't eat nyjer seed since I first brought them home, so maybe they'll eat it (real eggs) now.

Prior to the onset of molt, they ignored pretty much everything except the minerals, the budgie mix, extra oat groats, extra canary reedgrass seed, and occasionally, the odd beakful of sunflower chips. They're eating pretty much everything they're offered now, except they still totally ignore the rape seed in the finch mix (which I add to the budgie mix at about 2:1 budgie to finch mix)

But that's just background. Here's the thing that worries me:

SO they are in molt, which means stressed. And for some bizarre reason, the male, known as Bambi (he's a fawn Bengalese) has decided NOW IS THE TIME TO MATE.

Since I pumped up their food choices (prior to the onset of molting, they were only getting the budgie mix, and extra oat groats and canary reedgrass seed and sunflower seeds before, though they weren't eating much of the sunflower seed) - Bambi has started singing and posturing again. And today, he jumped poor Pyewacket while she was minding her own business on one of the highest perches.

Note: Bambi has no tail feathers. He was a rescue from a pet shop, where he was getting the plucked over to such an extent that they had to isolate him. And then they told me he was a "her". So I took her/him home to be a friend to my white female, Pyewacket, after her BFF, Molly Brown, died of egg binding.

So he sings, postures - and jumps poor Pyewacket, much to her surprise, and promptly fell of, knocking her to the bottom of the cage, where she sat looking extremely surprised and offended.

I did not know they would even TRY to mate while in molt. SO here are my questions:

1. Could Bambi (the fawn male) be on a DIFFERENT molting schedule than Pyewacket (the white female)? Because I've only seen WHITE shed feathers thus far - maybe he's not molting yet?
2. Regardless of HIS state of molting, SHE is definitely shedding feathers - will she be endangered by successful breeding?
3. I have them in a Prevue F070, which can be divided in half - should I do so to isolate them until molt is over? They'd still be in the same cage, side by side, but wouldn't have actual access to each other
4. Is there anything I ought to be doing or providing that's not already in place?

Oh, and btw, I don't WANT to breed them - there is no nest nor even a seed cup big enough for them to sit in anywhere in the cage. If I find any eggs, they will be discarded. Molly Brown was laying despite the total absence of a male in the cage, and that resulted in her death - so I'm not the least bit enthused at the thought these guys might be trying to breed.

[lovezebs]

Sojourner

I would offer them good quality finch seed mix, a variety of greens , and I would try a mixture of hard boiled eggs, mixed with a bit of crumbled Spray Millet mixed in (small amount twice a week).

Crushed egg shells, and cuttle bone.
Vitamins in the water twice a week.

If any eggs get laid (and you don't want grandchildren ), I would just toss them.

[debbie276]

By adding all those goodies at once you have triggered "time of plenty, time to breed".
You might try cutting back on some of the higher protein foods to a couple times a week rather then every day. They need the high protein for new feathers but not so much it stimulates them to breed.
No nest and tossing of the eggs is a good idea if you don't want them to raise a clutch. Be sure to have several calcium sources, which you seem to have already.
Your birds are very lucky to have such a variety in their diet

good luck, do keep us posted

[Sojourner]

I am happy with the budgie + finch mix. They won't eat most of the "extra" stuff in the finch mixes, especially pellets and dried fruit bits. They have yet to touch the rape seed commonly found in finch mixes, and they continue to turn up their beaks at flax seed. I had thought they were eating that, but turns out they were just picking out the oat bran I'd put in the same treat cup. Turns out they've been treating the sesame seed the same way. So they're still not eating either of those.

They do get greens and fresh fruit, but they barely even notice it since the molt started.

They go to the budgie/finch mix most often, then sunflower seeds, then any variety of oats. They switch back and forth between the sunflower seeds and oats as their #2 favorite after the main feed (budgie/finch mix).

Then, a distant second tier, the Chia seed. Everything else they eat a little bit of, except the smallest of the oily seeds that I have on hand, the sesame and flax seed, which they still seem to be ignoring.

Everything other than the budgie/finch mix and the sunflower seed are in very small to tiny treat cups, so they're not being offered wheelbarrow loads of these new seeds - just small amounts that are found in most "molting" mixes anyway.

They get their regular stuff, the sunflower seeds, and the chia all the time, but the others rotate through the remaining 2 or 3 treat cups. Since they eat the extras slowly, the rotation doesn't go to fast - I'll switch one of the extras out for another on average about twice a week.

Oh, and I've been leaving the nyjer in permanently. They have been eating it, but not very often. I figure if they're eating it at all, they need it, given they've shown no interest in it at all prior to onset of molt. My guess is they won't want it any more once molt is over, but we'll see.

So that's just 2 other types of seed in the remaining treat cups at any given time.

They get vitamin water every day, with vitamin vacations about twice a month I think. I'm happy with that as well.

I'll get some more of that CeDe egg food I had before - with only the 2 birds, and no people in this house who eat eggs, making them fresh egg food would tend to run a bit high cost-wise, as about 90% of each egg ends up having to be tossed.

They have been getting charcoal during their water vacations, but they don't pay it much mind. I've about decided to keep it on hand just for emergencies. I haven't found a reason why healthy finches would need it.

I have never heard about triggering breeding by offering what I have actually been told to offer them regularly - where can I read more about that? I'll google it too. I just want to read more about the details - this is all stuff I've been told they need to get fairly regularly for a balanced diet. But I should have seen a possible connection between the posturing/singing and the new feeds.

I'll try to find out more about that. Thanks.

[Sojourner]

OK so I have been reading about things that can trigger breeding, and it turns out light plays a big part in that.

Simultaneously with the improved diet, I started spending a LOT more time in the bird room because they had been getting sadly neglected since I moved them back in there, back when I first brought Bambi home.

So I've had lights on in that room for HOURS longer than before.

From what I've read, regular room lighting can trigger breeding. I fear that's what is happening here. If I turn off the overhead light and there is only light from the TV and the computer, will that help? Or should I start covering the cage when it gets dark outside? Or both?

[Sojourner]

I have been covering the cage once it gets completely dark outside. There seems to be less mating sort of activity thus far, but I won't feel "safe" until its been at least a week. Less singing, less posturing, no jumping-on.

It appears that the lighting has had at least SOMETHING to do with this. I'll keep watching to make sure things are back to normal, and adjust the feed if I have to.

[Sojourner]

Things are pretty much back to normal. Reducing light exposure to normal daylight hours seems to have done the trick. At least for now.

Which leads me to wonder - is it possible to put off mating indefinitely by restricting the hours of light?