Need some advice for proper prevention of problems...

[Magali]

Hi all,

I've been reading many articles, blogs and forum posts on the web (including here) regarding proper care of finches and I'm a bit confused about using meds like wormers, Scatt, etc. I've been keeping and breeding only society finches for about a couple years without any health issues and without using any meds at all, and I wasn't worried about that and didn't even think of using them. The thing is, I just got a couple of Stars and read about them to make sure to care for them correctly... and this is when I started worrying. A lot of finch keepers/breeders say they worm their birds several times a year and I remember reading about at least one that said he applies Scatt on the back of their necks whenever he has to manipulate them, whatever the reason, as a preventive measure (all of this regardless of the species of finches). Also, when talking with the lady who sold the Stars to me, mostly about their food, she then suddenly dropped that sentence: "Oh yeah, and they've been recently treated, so no worries.", as if it was OBVIOUS that they had to be treated. At the time, I just nodded in agreement, didn't want to look like someone ignorant or like I don't care for my birds properly...

Now, I'm not a fan of using meds without good reason, but I also don't want problems if they can be avoided. Currently, the Stars are in quarantine and I won't put them with my societies until I'm sure enough that they're ok (I've read that quarantine should last at least a few weeks) but I also want to decide what to do with my whole society flock, should I treat them or not? And if I do, with what? By the way, I've been to my local pet store and they don't sell anything like that... but Amazon Canada (yeah, I live in Canada) seems to have Vetafarm's products like Scatt, Worm Out gel, but it's expensive (mostly because of the shipping fee).

If someone could help shed some light on this matter, that would be most appreciated...

Thank you!

[wildbird]

As long as your societies are fine, don't do anything to them. Remember that all drugs have bad side effects and I wouldn't use anything that I didn't have a reason to treat for. I don't believe in treating as a preventative. Some people do, but I don't. As long as the new birds seem to be healthy, I wouldn't worry about them. It is my opinion that medications are way over used.

[Icearstorm]

Magali

I don't treat unless they need it; no reason to use medicine if there isn't much risk in the first place. Mine live inside and I occasionally bring leaves and plants in from outside, but it's not like they're sitting under the wild birds' roosting trees, so it's unlikely anything would happen. And in the rare chance that there is an issue, I can then try to fix it.

Some people quarantine for several months, treat for everything right when they get new birds to keep their flock clean, and then never treat again, which can work great in a bio-secure environment. Kill everything dangerous, never bring anything new in, and you shouldn't need to worry about the stuff you killed ever again. This is recommended for bio-secure, high-density commercial breeders. There really isn't much benefit for it to be worth treating everyone with everything unless you have very expensive or very many animals and those animals have little to no contact with outdoor pathogens (unlikely unless you shower and wash your clothes and every other item you carry every time you enter the bird area).

I would be suspicious of anyone's birds that were routinely treated for no reason, especially if antibiotics were involved. Not only is there a risk for resistance, but I would worry that the birds would have lower immunity. If an animal can't be healthy when given a good environment, it shouldn't be bred. Some people try to get around this by dosing the animals up on antibiotics, but this should be strongly discouraged.

Outdoor aviary birds may need treating with anti-parasitics every year to every few months if parasites are common in the area, but indoor birds with little exposure shouldn't need it. I haven't heard of anti-parasitic resistance, but some animals and plants have developed pesticide resistance, so it's not entirely impossible. It would just take much longer than antibiotic resistance in bacteria, since bacteria tend to reproduce much more quickly and thus have more generations to adapt.

[Magali]

Thank you for your quick replies, wildbird and Icearstorm. What about using societies as foster parents for other species? I heard that societies are asymptomatic carriers of something that can kill other species babies. I don’t plan on using foster parents unless absolutely necessary, but it would be good to know about that just in case.

[Icearstorm]

Magali

They can be carriers. But finches make better parents to other finches than humans do, so it might be worth risking fostering if you can't raise the finches yourself and you don't know if the societies are carriers. It's good to give the parents a couple of tries though, so if they toss, you could try putting the babies back before giving up on the parents.

[wildbird]

I think the only chicks that could be harmed would be Gouldians. There is more about it in past posts in this forum.

[lovezebs]

Magali

I for one didn't believe in treating birds unless they were sick.

Regretably I'd brought home a couple of Canary youngsters to hand raise for a friend (parents were not feeding) and unknowingly brought airsac mites to my bird room. The 2 Canary youngsters died, as did several of my Canaries and Gouldians, along with a few others.

I ended up with a bunch of very sick birds on my hands, had to Scat all 100+ because I didn't have S76 Ivermectin on hand to put in the water.

Ever since then, every bird that comes in the door gets Scatted without exception.

[Magali]

lovezebs

I see you’re in Canada. Where do you get your Scatt and how much do you pay for it? Lowest price I found was on Amazon Canada for 44.85$ (product + shipping) for a 50 mL bottle. That doesn’t seem like a lot, how many finches does that treat? Does this have a long shelf life?

[lovezebs]

Magali

I actually buy it from Jean Tarr in Edmonton Alberta.

It lasts for a good long time.

Can't remember how much it cost right off hand, but here's her site info:

http://www.finchroom.com/

She's usually very good at responding quickly.
A wonderful lady and a great, long time breeder.

Drop her an email and see what she says.

[wildbird]

Lovezebs, I am so sorry for the loss of your birds. And you were just trying to save some babies for someone.

[lovezebs]

wildbird

Yup, no good deed goes unpunished, right?

[wildbird]

Lovezebs, Right!

[Magali]

lovezebs

Thanks for the info!

[Magali]

Magali

I actually buy it from Jean Tarr in Edmonton Alberta.

It lasts for a good long time.

Can't remember how much it cost right off hand, but here's her site info:

http://www.finchroom.com/

She's usually very good at responding quickly.
A wonderful lady and a great, long time breeder.

Drop her an email and see what she says.

Holy crap, I just checked out her website and I got an answer to a question I didn't even ask myself! I have a LOT of male offspring, but I didn't think there actually was an explanation to this. Seems I have a lot more to learn... that's great stuff, thanks again. I'll be sure to contact her.