Poor Balance/Listing in Sick Hen

[MiaCarter]

Medicines arrived!
She's had her first day on them. No noticeable changes, but it's hard to tell because she spends 99% of the day in-nest.

Poor Priscilla is about as bad as you can get. She literally has no balance. She tries to perch and can use her wings to stabilize herself in that direction, but she has no way to stabilize herself as she wobbles back and forth (head to tail direction) and falls off.

Thus far, I've left her in-cage with the others, as I suspect twirling, which can be brought on/made worse by stress.
This and she's very bonded with her mate, Elvis. He's very concerned and attentive. He's always next to her, sitting on the edge of the nest. When she drops down to the floor to eat/drink, he sits right next to her at all times.

But I'm expecting Molly Sue and Ivy's babies within the next couple days and I'm nervous about spiking the water with antibiotics while they have babies, as I know that can kill off good bacteria, making a yeast infection more likely.

Although I should note that Priscilla cannot perch on the water cups (she would face plant into the water) so I have a small cup on the floor of the cage that she can easily access. I've been spiking this water only, as it's the only one she can currently use. Nobody else seems to use it.

What would you guys do?
A - separate Priscilla into a sick cage, knowing it will stress her (and stress could be a big problem for her)
B - separate Priscilla AND Elvis into a sick cage, which would upset both birds, but Priscilla would experience a bit less stress.
C - leave Priscilla in the main cage and continue doing as I've been doing, providing she continues using only the medicated water.
D - another idea??

[Sally]

I'd do either A or B, preferably A but if she gets too stressed being separated from her mate, then B would be an option. I've never had a really sick bird seem to care that they were separated from a mate.

[MiaCarter]

Thanks, Sally !

Same here -- I've never seen a bird care that they were alone while sick. But Priscilla is a bit unique as based on what I've seen, she does seem to care.
Example: When Elvis leaves for more than a minute or two, she starts vocalizing until he returns. She doesn't do this when he's with her.

This is an odd case of illness as she's eating, drinking and vocalizing. She lacks that depression that you typically see with a sick animal.
It's like her mind is okay; it's just her body that's broken.

Sally - What's your opinion on what could be ailing her. Does this sound like twirling to you?

[Sally]

I've never dealt with twirling in my bird room, but I did see a Gouldian in someone's aviary several years ago. It spent most of the time on the bottom of the aviary, head twisted and tilted back, and it was almost spinning on the floor of the aviary--a really severe case of twirling.

[MiaCarter]

Sally - Me too. That's the same behavior I saw when I encountered a bird with that condition.

Priscilla doesn't look up or twirl. Her balance is just shot. But I've read that it can take this sort of manifestation as well.
But she's totally normal otherwise. It's really perplexing.

Hopefully the new antibiotics will help!
My avian vet isn't back until mid-week next week.

[Sally]

Are you giving both the trimethoprim sulfa and the nystatin at the same time? The first is for bacterial infections and the second is for fungal infections.

[MiaCarter]

Sally - Yep! Got them both, plus some other goodies too, including NV powder, herb salad and bugs, among other things!

[Corkysgirl]

MiaCarter I've been at the doctor's all day...and my power was out later tonight...goodness! Yes, I've seen twirling that was extreme, head twisted tilted back and falling. But I've also just seen it where they just tipped over...like an equililbrium issue.
My older female is very serious about change. If I would remove her brother from the cage next to her or any changes at all to the other finches...sick or not, she really starts going crazy! She opens her mouth, pants jumps up and down on and off the nest frantically worrying. The nest is on the floor because of her age...needing to sleep in it because I feel she's too old to perch only...and she has the chronic eye infection. So out of the hundred plus birds I've had, she's the only one who can't handle changes, but she can't. Wow, this is a hard one. I'd say keep her with her mate in another cage, but is he drinking the antibiotics? Are you sure he's not? He really cares about her and emotional health is important. Molly Sue and Ivy are in the same cage? Have you been giving her bugs right along or are they a new source? Just grasping at straws.

[MiaCarter]

Corkysgirl -- Great to see you! We've had lots of power outages lately too. Summertime has arrived! (We get daily thunderstorms, hence the abundance of power outages. Usually pretty brief, though.)

Yes, Priscilla and Elvis are in the same cage with Squeepers, Ivy and Molly Sue.

The bugs are semi-new. They've always eaten those nutrient-coated flies, but I ran out a couple weeks ago and haven't had a chance to get more.
The bugs I got with my order are new; they've never had these before. It's the ground up housefly larvae and pupa.

I've never seen Elvis drink the antibiotics water. I took my laptop in there and sat in there working for a few hours today and yesterday to get a better feel for what was going on with her. So I'm about as certain as I can be that he's not drinking them.

It's a tough call.
This illness came on as a very subtle abnormality. Instead of standing equally on both legs, she had her weight shifted onto one leg more so than the other.
Then I noticed a lack of balance when perching.
Then she was holding one wing oddly, clearly to compensate.
I figured perhaps she'd injured herself somehow, as she was eating, drinking and vocalizing like normal. So I didn't pull her out.
Then, over the course of 3-4 days, she got worse and worse. By that time, she'd already been around the others for several days while unwell, so I figured that if it was transmittable, she'd have spread it to the others already. (No signs of any problems in the others, knock on wood.)
So with this, and considering her bond with Elvis and the potential for stress that could make it worse, I made the decision to just leave her.

We shouldn't see babies yet for at least 2-3 days, so I think I'm going to give her another day or so, and if I don't see any improvement, then I'll pull her out. I'll probably pull Elvis too, as they're very closely bonded and I don't want to stress her more than necessary. She is obviously bothered when he leaves her for more than a couple minutes. She'll start honking and peeking up over the edge of her nest.

It's very sweet how he's preening her and tending to her. She makes her way down to the bottom of the cage to eat and he'll stand beside her, like her little bodyguard. He'll hop toward anyone who approaches, so it looks like he's trying to keep the others away, with the exception of Ivy.

When Molly Sue is sitting, Ivy has started sitting with Elvis on the edge of their nest and occasionally preening Priscilla. I didn't realize they were friends, as Ivy has only been with us a few months.
It's quite strange as usually, they isolate and avoid the sick birds or even drive them away! Thankful they're kind to her.

[Corkysgirl]

Awww, I love that when there is a special relationship like that. It's very rare.
I'm just grasping...probably not this but just in case. What about your water. Yes, all the birds drink the same water but if one bird has a propensity or a weakness, an illness might manifest itself in one bird and not another...or not yet. I'm really tired...didn't get to bed yet...and only slept 4 hours last night so I hope I'm making sense. I've lived in houses where the well water had arsenic, and other contaminants. Lead and zinc overload can cause twirling. I'm sure there are other things. Some people make the mistake of giving two kinds of vitamins and then their birds get too much of a few vitamins that their body can't flush out fast enough. Vitamin A is one that is really bad. Try thinking of weird things like that. That's why I even asked about the bugs. Probably not the issue but what did the bugs eat? Were they in soil that had a lot of lead? It may be none of these things. It could be a virus, but viruses come from somewhere...where? Major reasons for it are viruses, middle ear issues, head injury, Vitamin D-3 deficiency...and I can't remember the others. I really hope she improves with the new supplements. It may take a few days. Gotta get to bed but I'll check later for an update.

[MiaCarter]

I'm actually quite certain it's nothing in my water. By chance, we just had a water quality test.
Our well pump died and we needed some other new components, so they went through the system and re-did lots of things. They did a water quality test to determine what filters would be best and so forth. So I know we don't have any bad things like lead in our water. I don't recall if they tested for zinc. I can try to find out.
But that's not to say there's not some virus in there.

I thought about the vitamins too -- that perhaps she could have an excess. She's always been a good eater.
So when I did the first couple days of antibiotics, I omitted the vitamins from the water and all other sources too. Just to see if there was any improvement. (She got worse).

Her symptoms arose about a week or so after she last had any bugs, so I don't think it would be from them.

As for a virus source...
She has access to hay, so it's possible a virus could come in that way. I always freeze the hay to kill off nasties (mites, specifically, as I had problems with my guinea pig with mites), but I know viruses can be very hearty and resistant. Even the millet could bring in viruses. So lots of potential sources.

[MiaCarter]

Morning update:

Priscilla is actually very strange this morning.
She's twittering away non-stop. It's very odd, unlike any vocalization I've ever heard. A very soft bird mumbling is the best way to describe it, intermingled with some beak chattering. (Not audible; visible only.)
Very odd.
It's not a distressed sort of vocalization. It actually sounds rather happy. I tried getting it on video, but it's too soft.
As usual, Elvis is sitting beside her, preening and occasionally singing to her.

I've seen her sitting on the edge of the nest a couple times too (She struggled to do so, but she tried - more than she's done in recent days).
And she was down eating/drinking, so that's good!

[MiaCarter]

Okay, this new vocalization/beak chattering is the strangest thing ever!
Here's a video so you can hear it. (Helps if you don't cover the microphone intake with your finger when you record! LOL)
http://youtu.be/Up4S6K9fEi0

Any ideas what that beak chattering means?

It's not like anything I've ever heard and it's absolutely non-stop! I've been sitting in there working for the past 4 hours and she's been twittering away nonstop! (Can those medications make her nuts?? I'm half serious with that question.)
She does seem more active for sure.

Ever-faithful Elvis is beside her, preening after his bath (if you can call it that....he dunks his head and chest in the water cup! LOL)

[Corkysgirl]

I think it might mean she's starting to feel better and she's happy about it. I am trying to hear it but it's impossible. I will have to listen to it at night because the second my birds start to hear your birds, they go crazy...and I can't hear anything.
About the water test. I don't think they test for zinc. I worked for Meadowbrook Water Treatment Company in Baltimore and we tested water, set up systems, Reverse Osmosis, and other whole house systems, salt, etc.. They test for E-coli and Coliform, bacterias and
Inspect Test includes bacteria, nitrate, nitrite, iron, lead, copper, turbidity, and pH. It's probably not that. About the bugs...and a week later, though I don't think that's the issue, viruses can have a long incubation period...a week wouldn't surprise me. The hay...wonder about mold. Freezing doesn't get rid of many, many bacterias or viruses, only slows their growths. I hope it means she's feeling better. I'll check in later. Can you update a bit later? I have to go for a bit.

[Ginene]

MiaCarter...I am so sirry that your sweet girl isnt feeling well. A breeder friend of mine (very experienced) recommends giving the antibiotics straight to the beak to make sure the bird gets the full dosage. This is also a great way to ensure Elvis doesn't take in unnecessary meds. Just thought I would mention this...sending you and Pricilla hugs and prayers.