Breeding hen suddenly ill--HELP ASAP!

[GouldieFledge]

Babs

So far, so good. Daddies have been tending to the nest and feeding the baby. It doesn't look like the crop's as filled as in the past, though.

[debbie276]

Good news that the male is still feeding. I'd give him time to adjust to all the feedings, you may have peeked in before he was finished or before he started. The crop does need to empty between feedings.
Good luck

[GouldieFledge]

Thank you. I'm still concerned about what killed my hen in the first place, and if it could be spread to the others/the chick. I took pictures of her after she died and the diarrhea she had right before, should I post one or both of the images? I'm not sure of forum etiquette for that.

[debbie276]

I don't think posting the pictures will be a problem, others have posted pictures simular. Not sure if it will help at all though as we're not qualified vets.

[Babs _Owner]

GouldieFledge

Very happy to see Dad is still doing his job. Yay! When the little one fledges let us know. The baby should bounce all around the cage pestering the daylights out of dad for feedings.

[GouldieFledge]

Babs debbie276 Okay great, I am going to post images shortly.

I have a bad update, though: My OTHER female is starting to look rough now! The back of her head looks like it's losing feathers just like the WB had, and she's got a general rough appearance as well. Could it be the males? Now that the other female's dead, they've turned their aggressions to her?

Should I move her to a cage by herself? She's always been kind of a loner, but I also know finches are social creatures and aren't supposed to be housed alone...but would she be happier this way?

I mean now that the WB hen died, the dynamic of the cage is off or "wrong" anyway--I have 2 males and 1 female (not including the chick).

I've also noticed they seem to be preening themselves A LOT. Could it be some kind of mite? I do S76 for two consecutive days, every 3 weeks. So frustrated!

[Sally]

How often are you doing the S76? I would think that with one hen and two males, she is going to be stressed, as both males will be wanting to mate with her. At least temporarily, I would move her into a cage by herself and put a heat lamp on her so you can watch her.

[Babs _Owner]

GouldieFledge

Stress can also cause constant preening, scratching. I'm not an expert, but since this female is not participating in feeding the youngster anyway...Just like Sally mentioned. I'd remove her and see if her condition improves.

If she dramatically improves, then you can assume at that point it may be the males harassing her.

Wishing the best for your little female. I know the last hen passing was hard on you.

[GouldieFledge]

Pictures following. WARNING: dead bird images, may be considered graphic to some.

Also, the photos were shot about 24 hrs post-mortem, so they aren't fresh.

[GouldieFledge]

The stuff in the droppings is herb salad that I spread on the cage floor for her, not part of the actual droppings. And like I said previously, her feather loss literally looks like it got twice as bad overnight.

These were the symptoms:
--Mild loss of feathers on head since onset of introducing males (about 3-4 mos. ago); severe loss 24-48 hrs before passing
--Hoarseness of voice over the last few weeks
--(In retrospect, I suppose she was doing a lot of preening as well.)
24-48 HRS PRIOR TO DEATH:
--Malaise/lethargy; puffed appearance, sleeping under heat lamp
--Wobbling/balancing issue, particularly in the head area (would move head/neck around, then regain herself)
--Progressed to spewing clear liquid around as the head wobbling/balance became more severe/violent

Throughout this entire period, she still ate, drank, chirped, and fed the chick normally.

[GouldieFledge]

Babs, Sally, here are some current pictures of the rest of the crew.

I do S76 in the water for two consecutive days, every 3 weeks. Before the breeding period started, I did it 2 days every month.

[GouldieFledge]

About 2 minutes after I took these pictures, the baby fledged! It's weird watching the two males feed.

I'm getting my 30x18 cage prepped to move the female into. I can now see the 2 males going after her, especially since the baby's out of the nest. I think she'll be relieved. I guess I will administer some S76 directly to her back, since I have to catch her anyway? I'm disinfecting the entire cage first to start with a clean slate, so to speak.

[Sally]

I do S76 in the water for two consecutive days, every 3 weeks. Before the breeding period started, I did it 2 days every month.

After you do the S76 for two consecutive days for three consecutive weeks, how long do you wait until you do it again, or are you only doing this just before the breeding season? Personally, I think S76 two days every month is way too much. Are you doing this as a preventative?

[Babs _Owner]

GouldieFledge Sally

Make sure you include a heat lamp (black light, red light, porcelain), so she can get some much needed sleep at night.

I'm finding black lights and simple 60watt red lights impossible to find at the hardware stores. But I have to say the red ones at the pet stores last a long time.......pet store black lights go out within 2-3 weeks.

I'm very happy your little one fledged!!

Eventhough I purchased S76 to give my juvies after their molt as a preventative for mites before most of them go to new homes....I could not imagine giving my flock any product like this monthly that could actually allow the bugs to build a resistance to the product. But alas, I have read some sites that suggest to give the dosage you are giving and my gut says not to do it. You are innocent in trusting these people. But roaches, ants, lice, bed bugs, mites...etc can overcome the preventatives in our homes, our hair and our birds.

Even topical flea meds for dogs are making the fleas more resistant.

I truly hope she doesnt have mites and her cagemates are just meanies. Please keep us up to date on her progress in her new cage.

[GouldieFledge]

Sally

Yes, I've been using it as a preventative measure. For S76, I do the 2 consecutive days every 3 weeks, not 3 consecutive weeks. This is what I read is supposed to be done for maintaining high stress periods (breeding, molting). For resting seasons, 2 consecutive days every month was what I had read/have been doing. I could have my info wrong though. I didn't think too much of this, I likened it to Frontlining a dog every month, just a routine preventative.

When reading about goudlians, I got really stuck on the air sac mite thing. There's an overwhelming amount of info on the subject, but the gist I got was: the air sac mite lives dormant in the finch from birth. It's there from the get-go and always will be, so "getting rid" of the mites doesn't exist. Keeping the mite numbers in check DOES exist, however. The mites comes out of dormancy in reaction to stress, so gouldian owners must dose birds routinely to 1. kill any climbing numbers, 2. keep the mite population reasonable, and 3. avoid a sudden, dramatic die-off, were there to be a severe infestation that were treated (read: suffocation by dead mites).

Ever since reading that stuff, I had it in my mind always "No S76 = surefire ticket to dead birds". When I first bought my two girls they started looking poor shortly after, so I bought the s76 and when I saw the turn-around in their appearance and behavior, I never questioned it again. Am I entirely too paranoid about the air sac mite? Maybe I fell prey to good marketing. I don't like to get duped! I would love to hear others' opinions on this.