Worsening eye injury

[Sojourner]

BTW those pictures are from TWO years ago, right after I first got her. So she has grown since then - she was still almost a baby then.

Trying to get her picture disturbed her somewhat so she puffed herself up a little in the pictures. She's not like that otherwise, maybe just a little but not to the extent apparent in the pictures.

[Icearstorm]

Sojourner

That is a ridiculous price! I watched a TedTalk about a year back, and they said that they could potentially be produced for $10, so someone is certainly marking it up...

The eye looks like it is inflamed but lacking pus from what I can tell; don't lance the area, as it appears to have high blood flow. Neosporin may help, though its goopiness makes seeds more likely to stick to the eye. Since the inflamed area around the eye does not appear to be an open wound, toothpaste shouldn't burn much if applied around the outside rim. I'm not sure if it would work in this situation, but I have used toothpaste on my snake, myself, and one of my lizards with success, so it seems safe. If anything, I have found that switching between compatible non-prescription treatments and/or using them in combination works best. So you could use a tea compress in the morning, then apply a thin layer of Neosporin, then use another tea compress at night, then apply some toothpaste, and so on. Unfortunately this approach means you can't be certain what is working due to the multiple variables.

Euthanasia is often performed by breaking the neck with a quick twisting motion or a sharp knife. I have heard ice picks can also be used on small animals to puncture the spinal cord at the base of the head, though this requires more precision to be effective. Birds can be gassed by placing them in a sealed container and filling it with a non-oxygen gas. This is also considered humane as they still feel like they can breathe. Neurotoxins would work as well, though I have not heard of them being used for finches or available for over-the-counter purchases. I have not used any of these methods yet, and therefore cannot recommend one as the best.

[Sheather]

It's hard to say without seeing her behavior, but the injury looks like it would be very painful for the bird, and you say it is worsening.

I have euthanized a handful of terminally ailing or injured birds and small animals (elderly pet rodents with large tumors and rabbits mauled by dogs) both passively (carbon dioxide gas chamber in an aquarium with baking soda and vinegar) and actively (put them in a sock, thud with all your might against a hard surface. The latter method is now my preferred, because it's instantaneous, if you have the ability to do it. It's also probably better than death by dehydration.

I am not suggesting you do so for your bird without actually knowing your bird in person and seeing its behavior and how its injury is progressing. But you did ask.

[Sojourner]

Sheather

There is no way I am putting this bird in a sock and whacking it against the wall. For heaven's sake!

As for whether or not she is worsening - she actually does look better. The swelling is less. The fact that the swollen area is fiery red makes it look worse than it probably actually is. I actually haven't been able to see her very well for a couple of weeks now so the first really good look I've gotten at her was after taking the above pictures and being able to enlarge them on the computer.

Thanks all the same but I think I'll give her every chance. She is still eating and drinking, and as long as that is the case, she has nothing to fear from me.

Unless you have something positive to add I'd be just as happy if you would just leave it at that. And by "positive" I don't necessarily mean "good news" but something concrete and meaningful. Such as, you have seen something like this, know what it is, and can explain yourself clearly.

<re euthanization>
I am not suggesting you do so for your bird without actually knowing your bird in person and seeing its behavior and how its injury is progressing. But you did ask.

Actually I ONLY "asked" because you did, in fact, suggest euthanization - without knowing my bird in person OR seeing its behavior and how its injury is progressing.

Regardless you can be QUITE QUITE certain that there is no way I will ever insert an animal of mine into a sock and whack it up side the head.

[Sojourner]

Icearstorm

Yeah, the $1100 glasses are not the same as the ones in the video. However I strongly doubt that they cost so much more than the ones in the video so as to justify the $1100 cost. There has got to be something in between $20 and $1100, no matter how wonderful the technology is supposed to be. Its not like they're filling them with liquid gold, after all.

The amount of hype over these leads me to believe that not nearly as many of these have been shipped overseas to poor people as he would like you to believe. I've seen several people who state they have managed to get hold of anywhere from a few dozen to a few hundred of these and distribute them in various places - but nothing that leads me to believe he is anywhere NEAR his stated goal of one billion free adjustable glasses for poor people in 3rd world countries by 2020. That's 3 years from now. I suspect self-aggrandizement is at work.

I have my doubts about how well the Ted Talk glasses actually hold up in 3rd world conditions anyway, because the reputation of the Adlens glasses is bad. They are described as flimsy, cheap, difficult to adjust, and prone to getting dirt between the lenses and getting scratched up and therefore useless. Keeping in mind the Adlens glasses are a different tech - they are 2 lenses that slide around across each other, no liquid is involved.

The AllField glasses allege that they use a liquid lens but they look absolutely NOTHING like the Ted Talk lenses. These are the ones that are $1100. There are at least 4 companies that have tried to manufacture these or something like them in the years since the Ted Talk, and all but the Adlens and AllField have gone out of business after as little as 2 or 3 years. The longest surviving company lasted less than 5 years. I doubt that is because these $1000+ glasses were impressively wonderful. My guess is the $20 glasses aren't all he's cracked them up to be, either. They may very well cost more than $20 to manufacture as well.

Who knows. There's no way to tell because there are absolutely NO reports of their durability in the field and you can't get hold of them to evaluate for yourself. Or at least *I* can't, LOL!

This isn't the first time I've run across something that has turned out to be over-hyped in a Ted Talk. Kind of like the $10 computer that never materialized that Fahreed Zakariah was so hot on about 10 years ago.

I think that ended up running about $150. It was presented as a $10 computer, then there was a $25 version (Raspberry Pi I think), then they said $100 - ultimately $150 - which, don't get me wrong, is way way cheaper than any computer I've ever owned in my entire life (and I use to build them myself, I was a software engineer) but its not $10, either.

[Sojourner]

lovezebs
Icearstorm

Back to treatment options for my gal.

You guys gave me a place to start. Thanks. I've been flailing around looking for bird-specific medicines and finding only systemic medications, none of which seemed hopeful. By suggesting Neosporin (which I never thought of in large part because its people meds and OTC to boot) you gave me a starting point for research.

Turns out that topical infections such as Pye seems to have are virtually untouched by systemic (oral) medications - which explains why everything but this topical infection of her eye has cleared up. This is not what she started with, what she started with was horrible looking and weepy and she had breathing problems. All THAT has cleared up, leaving just this surface infection that is persisting (and that I believe was probably caused or at least exacerbated by her scratching herself with her witch claws).

I intend to give her every possible chance. Lovezebs, you saved Max - and I am QUITE sure I could not have done that. But if Max could make it back from what was a truly horrendous set of injuries, I am hopeful that Pye can come through this, too.

I'm not ready to give up on her yet. I think she deserves the chance and unless and until she stops eating and drinking, she hasn't given up. You can tell when an animal has given up. You can just tell - or at least I can. And she hasn't given up yet, so neither should I.

If she gives up or worsens, THEN I'll re-evaluate her situation. But until then - I thank you for your VERY constructive and helpful advice.

At least now I have a way to get a better look at her that just plain didn't occur to me until I took a picture for you guys after someone mentioned it was hard to tell what was going on without one. It SHOULD have occurred to me to take a picture and blow it up on the computer so I could actually see better but it just didn't. So I have Finchforum peeps to thank for that as well.

Also, now that I have a picture, I can at least take another in a week or so (apparently it is expected to take at least that long before there might be visible improvement if she has the type of injury/infection I think she has) and compare OBJECTIVELY whether she has improved or worsened. Instead of having to guess from the blurry white blob that is about all I can see without actually grabbing her and holding her right up to my face.

Thank heaven for autofocus!

I can't actually be sure given the state of my vision but it seemed to me that the swelling was much MUCH worse 3 days ago. I could swear it was about double what I am seeing in that picture now (though the cherry-red color is certainly fairly horrifying in and of itself). So maybe there was an abscess and maybe it is starting to resolve. Or maybe not. We don't have a good starting point given my unreliable eyesight at the moment.

So let's just consider today's pictures the starting point and move forward from here.

I will start the compresses and Neosporin tomorrow. Fortunately there is an anesthetic in Neosporin so that should help with any discomfort she is having. But I will have to go out and get it, I will do that first thing tomorrow morning. It's already getting dark here and I don't drive after dark even when my eyesight IS up to par. I'm afraid I've napped most of the afternoon away before I realized it. I should have gone out to get the Neosporin right away. But this has been a problem since starting the Metformin, sleeping properly. Or rather not sleeping properly.

I will make another sweep through the house for the Optivisor and the clippers. If push comes to shove I guess I will just have to use my cheap-o clippers on her instead of the good ones. They won't cut as cleanly but I'll need to stay far away from the quick anyway. Especially if I can't find the Optivisor. Hopefully that will help keep her from injuring the eye further, or at least minimize further risk. I've not seen her scratch at it for quite some time now, I think since the weepiness has cleared up that's less of an issue for her.

Now if we can just get past whatever is still going on with her. And that would be impossible without your help. I thank you all for your help and patience with me being all over the place over this.

Hope she likes warm tea compresses.

Icearstorm, what is the toothpaste for? Maybe I should go for 3x per day treatment for her? Once in the early AM and once in the late afternoon with the neosporin, and maybe toothpaste late at night? I'm not sure what the toothpaste is doing, would that be appropriate at all?

If she survives this I am as certain as I can be that she will never recover the sight in that eye. I may have to make her a tiny little eyepatch and rename her.

P-P-P-Pye-Pye-PIRATE! Hang in there and earn your new name!

[wildbird]

Anyone who would kill a bird should never be around any birds, let alone ever own any! And I could say more but not here.

[Sheather]

If I was suffering I'd hope someone would be kind enough to let me free of it too (not referencing Pyewacket, if she's improving, then I take back my statement earlier. The image was just really shocking.)

[Stuart whiting]

If I was suffering I'd hope someone would be kind enough to let me free of it too (not referencing Pyewacket, if she's improving, then I take back my statement earlier. The image was just really shocking.)

Hi Dylan,

To be honest I wouldn't even bother going there and wouldn't lower meself, not worth the agg

PM sent

[Icearstorm]

Sojourner

Perhaps they should propose goods at a higher price than the estimated production cost so people don't get hyped and then realize that the cost isn't practical. Unfortunately this also makes it harder to predict what the production cost actually is, and how much is for profit. Both models of those adjustable eyeglasses look inexpensive, so I can't imagine production costs being above $40.

I read that Neosporin should not be used for more than a week in a row. It should not get in the eye, so maybe you should avoid applying it closer to 1/4" from the eye opening. This goes with toothpaste, as well. I'm still not sure exactly what the toothpaste does, but it helps clear up open wounds. It may not be useful in this situation, as I am unsure whether it could be absorbed through the skin.

Three times a day may be too stressful, but it depends on the bird. Some animals appear to figure out that you are trying to help them and calm down, while others consistently freak out.

[lovezebs]

Hi everyone.

Ok, let's see now....

Regarding toothpaste...
I've personally had a splash of toothpaste in the eye on several occasions. Stings like hell. Therefore I would be very cautious with that one.

If you can get the Polysporin eye ointment, that would be your best choice. Not sure if Neosporin has that one or not. Ask your pharma guy. If you can get an antibiotic ointment specifically for the eyes, that would be your best bet in this case and that would be my first choice.

@Sheather and ]wildbird

Regarding killing a bird when it is suffering and there is absolutely no way to help it.

Here we are discussing a mercy killing, not murdering one of our precious birds just for the heck of it.

I have been very lucky so far that I have never had to take that path with any of my birds.
However, I have had to take beloved Dogs and Cats to the vet to be put to sleep... and those were extremely (and I mean extremely) difficult decisions, as anyone who loves their furry family members will understand. I don't take that decision lightly, nor is it first choice on my list.

As Sojourner mentioned above, your beloved pets let you know when it is time.

I have sat with dying birds cradled close to my heart on a few occasions until they died. In all of these cases, they were peaceful to the end, and I do believe that the primal sound of a beating heart is comforting and calming to all creatures.

Did I kill them? No.
But I allowed them to die, knowing that they were beyond anything that I could do to help them, and knowing that attempting all sorts of invasive procedures, would have simply frightened them and brought on more suffering.

Could I kill one of my birds?
I'm not sure, but if it was screaming in pain, I think I could find it within myself to set it free.

I do not judge others for having to do what they felt they had to do, until I am in their shoes.

Now, how is Pye doing this morning, and how are you doing Sojourner???

[Babs _Owner]

Sojourner

Poor Pyewacket. She has been through alot. She did go through a round of antibiotics prior to this, didn't she? Is what we are seeing the healing stage?

[wildbird]

There is a big difference between killing yourself and killing a bird which has no say in the matter.

[lovezebs]

wildbird

We seem to be getting off the topic here, which is Pye having an eye infection and folks on the forum attempting to offer helpful and constructive advice as to how to help Sojourner with this issue.

This is not a thread about euthanasia and whether we approve of it or not.

[lovezebs]

Sojourner

How is Pye doing, and how are you?

I hope all is well.