deleted

[HoangQuan]

First of all, why in the world do we give our birds medicine if they are not sick and show any signs of illness?(!)

We can never come close to the wild diets since some of us do not have all the resources availble to match the ingredients found in the wild. Sometimes we need to depend on pellets, liquid supplements, dried egg foods opposed to whole eggs, dried insects vs live. We do what we need to do to give our birds what we can within our limits and resourses.

I can't agree more, Cindy!

[Mannikin_luver]

I am just curious, is all that you posted a stab at each of us? I may be wrong but It seems you are making a mockery of what we said in order to get your point across. I find it rather rude and uncalled for. There is more I could say however I will bite my tongue in the event I am assuming something I shouldn't be.

[franny]

I personally don't think he is trying to hurt any feelings here. I think he is just stating what he feels to be the best possible husbandry for birds, which is to follow nature "as closely as possible". Obviously we can't all do that. And obviously there are exceptions to that rule as well.

But I personally agree that what he is saying is basically true. If you can give your birds an environment and foods that are as close as possible to what they would have naturally in the wild, how could they not thrive?!

I think he is right, in that reading some of the posts on this forum, it appears that we do rely on a lot of supplements and medications. And that concerns him. As a nation/continent, we have become a continent of pill poppers, both in our own lives, and in our pets lives. How many of us eat healthy, organic foods as opposed to processed foods?? We rely on packaged foods, supplements, one-a-day vitamins, etc., way too much. And we do the same for our pets, be they dogs, cats, or birds. Processed foods... easy, and touted as being healthier for our pets--well except for the occassional dose of melamine in the pet food from China...

batuhan is only saying what he believes to be true, just as you all do, when you state that Guardian Angel or Ronavet or whatever, has done wonders for your bird. So I think everyone should just get off his case - he has as much right to express this opinion as you do yours. Why must you take it as a personal insult?! Is it because his English isn't good? Remember, that things can be taken in the wrong vein when put down in writing. You can't read his tone of voice. Don't always assume he is trying to lay blame on each of you personally.

Edited to add - Why not just agree to disagree on this topic?

[CandoAviary]

Batuhan,
I too agree that birds were designed to have everything they need in nature, from the sunshine, minerals, medical herbs, untreated waters, fresh foods from seed to bugs to greens and fruits. I too try to folow natures example... as it is hard to improve upon. I admire your common sense, holistic approach, what's best for your birds attitude
I too agree that if you do it right to start with then disease and therefore medications are not necessasary. I have found through natural diet, lots of space, proper quarentine of new birds, etc. have gone a long way in keeping my 400 bird population free of disease. Unfortunately, the average hobby finch keeper does not have the facilities that mimic nature. They cage them as decorations in the living rooms. Same as we do a fish aquarium. We try to bring a little of nature indoors for our enjoyment.... though I will be honest and say that I am aware that this kind of living is NOT the best for the birds. I will do it but I do rotate the birds to the outdoor aviaries for a vacation. We all know what a little fresh air and sunshine filled vacation can do for us...not just the health bennefits but the mental break from the every day stress Nor do the average bird hobbiest have the natural foods... most resort to their own convienance with packaged seed and pellets. Usually dried herbs, fruits, and greens instead of fresh.... then adding vitamins to the water
Also I think the average keeper wants a quick fix when there birds are down. This is were dangerous antibiotic use comes in to play, causing drug resistant viruses, bacterias, etc. to emerge. I do believe that you are trying to be helpful in offering good advice on the foods and housing conditions for finches. Unfortunetly many who can't/don't have the climate, space, desire will defend their practices of keeping finches indoors, in cages, on processed diets untill they die. From reading post here, many times the same member will have the same reoccuring problems with their finches. Seems they don't really learn from the first time therefore tend to have ongoing problems. Then there are other members that seem to learn and grow in the knowledge of good finch husbandry. They create larger flights, better lighting, provide new foods that they learn about here. To me this is what the forum is for, to share our knowledge and experiences for the betterment of the birds.
I also have come to learn that even when trying to share opinions and experiences they will not always be taken with the intent of helpfullness. Some just like to debate for the sake of argument, some take it that you are a know it all, some just plain are envious and instead of rejoicing they are mean, and many are just too defensive to learn a better way Some want their opinion taken graciously yet when someone else gives an opinion they take it as an attack and all other sorts of emotions that get in the way of learning and sharing as a community. So many forget that we are here to share about finches.. something that we all love ..... Don't be discouraged from sharing though.... Many joined this forum with an open mind to learn more. There are plenty of naturalist that love to grow their finches organic foods, grasses, etc. I am all about learning more of what you offer your birds as I can tell you are an astute student of nature. Please continue to share, for I am one with an open mind and love to learn from other keepers... usually it is the ones that do things differently than I that I learn the most
I also agree that the members do truly love and want to provide the best home that they can...... 'Best home' varies from one keeper to another

[Ursula]

Well said, Fran and Candace!!!

[dfcauley]

I am sure that he is absolutely not trying to make a mockery of any of us.
And also I am sure that EVERYONE is not on his case.......

I believe that Batuhan is trying to give us some advice for our birds. He may not be able to communicate it to us as we would like, but he is absolutely not trying to be mean.

Thank you Batuham for caring enough to try to translate your feeling on medications. I am sure that if your birds are sick you also give them medication. I think many times we totally overdo our supplements and meds. It is certainly not worth an argument when we are all trying to reach the same goal. Healthy birds.

[franny]

Thanks for the reminder. I guess I jumped on 'everyone' myself, there. Sorry about that. Anyway, as you say, he is trying to be helpful and I just wanted to let him know that many of us do get what he is trying to say. And yes, I'm sure it's safe to say this time, that 'everyone' here is trying for the same goal. Healthy birds.

[Mannikin_luver]

I also apologize if I came off offensive in anyway, sometimes I am not the best at reading things. I'm sorry. *spanks hand*

[dfcauley]

All is well!!!!!

[cindy]

As I stated before I respect your views Batuhan. We all do what we feel is right for our birds and what is right for us.

[batuhan]

deleted

[Mannikin_luver]

I also apologize if I came off offensive in anyway, sometimes I am not the best at reading things. I'm sorry. *spanks hand*

All I am going to say!

[JohnBoy]

All together now:

We love our finches, oh yes we do.
We love our finches, oh yes we do.
When their not near us, we're blue.
Oh finches we love you.

[cindy]

Good one John...I think we can all sing that tune, shall we do it in a round????

[Mannikin_luver]

We love our finches, oh yes we do.
We love our finches, oh yes we do.
When their not near us, we're blue.
Oh finches we love you.