Preventative Health Medication

[dfcauley]

I didn't think doing worming once a year would hurt them at all...?

It doesn't...... and I treat all my dogs preventively for fleas every summer! Fleas can cause much worse issues than the treatment ever could.

[Chris103]

I didn't think doing worming once a year would hurt them at all...?

I dont think that a once yearly worming will necesarilly do major harm to your birds but I have heard of people that worm on a monthly basis as a "preventative" and that's where I think the harm could be done.

I don't believe in treating prophylactically for worms unless you have a reason to.. meaning - if your birds are housed outdoors where they have access to the ground/soil, or are fed live food where they could be exposed to certain parasites, it makes sense to have them on a prophylactic/"preventive" worming program.

Otherwise, indoor birds not on a live food diet could be wormed during quarantine and unless you see symptoms/signs I do not feel it is necessary to have them on a consistent worming program.
But that's just me..

Again, same with mites. Feather mites are not common in indoor housed birds so I don't consider it a necessary protocol. I have never treated my birds for feather mites unless I suspected a problem - and even in the one instance I thought it might be mites, it wasn't, so even then it turned out to be unnecessary but it was better to be safe than sorry since I wasn't sure what it was at the time. (Turned out the galvanized wire in the cage was damaging the feathers to where it looked like mite damage)..

I totally agree with this. Actually, most of the feather mite treatments contain known Carcinogens! I just think we need to be a bit more cautious in what we give/put on our birds.....just because its manufactured for them doesnt necessarily mean that it's totally safe. If you read the fine print on these bottles and dust in will warn you to not inhale or get the product on your skin. I just wonder that if a human could be injured by it, how safe is is for such a tiny creature with a much more delicate system than our own. It may not bother some people but I guess Im a bit of a health freak...ecspecially when it comes to chemicals. I like to go all natural and use chemicals as a LAST resort.

[Chris103]

It doesn't...... and I treat all my dogs preventively for fleas every summer! Fleas can cause much worse issues than the treatment ever could.

We (or I really ) am getting a bit off topic with this but I guess it does pertain to the general topic of preventative medication........

I agree that fleas can cause terrible damage to dogs, spread diseases, cause anemia, transmit worms etc...but there are MANY natural chemical free ways that you can go about preventing fleas, ticks and worms in your canines (and birds!). Also, a lot of wormers and flea medications can cause pretty severe problems. I worked at an all natural pet health store for years and saw first hand some of the neurological problems Bio Spot caused in a good sized yorkie. Anyways, here is a link explaining some of what concerns me and if you do more reasearch on this issue you will sadly uncover more and more dangers of the common products we give to our pets......dog food is a whole nother story, I won't even get started on that one!

http://shop.sixwise.com/index.asp?PageA ... tom&ID=154

[nixity]

The only thing I'll comment on is I think we should be careful about where we reference our information, particularly if the source of said information is out to market their own product(s) ;)

I tend to gear my searches for relevant information on topics like this to Google scholar.
See page 13 and on..
http://files.waff.com/Guide%20to%20EPA% ... potOns.pdf

Also - I tend to steer clear of medications/topical treatments (Read: Bio Spot, Hartz, Adams, etc) for dogs/cats that are available in places like Wal-Mart :\
Same reason I wouldn't buy the dog or cat food sold at Wal-Mart

I also tend to immediately ask: "Can I trust that the owner of the Yorkie was using the product correctly?"

I rode and owned horses up until I found out I had two herniated discs and anyone who has ever owned horses understands rotational worming treatments and the issue over fly sprays.

Also - these people could probably all agree with me here that the "natural" fly sprays never work.


I tried..

[Chris103]

Ill agree that about the source I used...should have found a better one but it was just to get it out there. There is TONS of credible info out there supporting what I stated.

The yorkie Lady: I know for a fact that she used the product properly. She actually used HALF the dose because she was afraid to use it. Also, that is one just one example of the numerous problems I witnessed with products like that.

Have you ever used Food grade DE (diatomaceous earth) It has worked wonders for me. I use it to worm my dogs and to help prevent fleas....it passes through their system unchanged and prevents fly larve from surviving on their feces. It can be iritating to your mucous membranes because it is dusty but that is the only problem Ive found with it. I take it as well! A tablespoon mixed with a whole bunch of other nasty stuff

Also, Frontline is no less harmful just because it comes from a vet.

I suppose opinions of course...

[dfcauley]

The only thing I'll comment on is I think we should be careful about where we reference our information, particularly if the source of said information is out to market their own product(s) ;)
..

I agree and I can read between the lines on this one..... But again I am sure everyone that sells will market their products and probably believe firmly in them. Which is sad for the consumer if they are being mislead.

Also as far as going natural...... I have no problem with that but I will say that I believe people can go overboard with it also.
I have used flea medication on my dogs for many years (vet approved) and never had a problem and my dogs have lived long, healthy lives. I only use it in the summer when there is the chance for problems and not year long.

Again... personal choice.

[nixity]

Have you ever used Food grade DE (diatomaceous earth) It has worked wonders for me. I use it to worm my dogs and to help prevent fleas....it passes through their system unchanged and prevents fly larve from surviving on their feces. It can be iritating to your mucous membranes because it is dusty but that is the only problem Ive found with it. I take it as well! A tablespoon mixed with a whole bunch of other nasty stuff

Yes - I use it in a soluble grit mixture for the birds and have used it in seed as well when I had a moth problem a few summers ago

Also, Frontline is no less harmful just because it comes from a vet.

I didn't really mean it that way

[nixity]

The yorkie Lady: I know for a fact that she used the product properly. She actually used HALF the dose because she was afraid to use it. Also, that is one just one example of the numerous problems I witnessed with products like that.

I really think these are exceptions and not the rule, though, otherwise these products would have been discontinued a long time ago - like Zelnorm

Just like the 10% of the population that might have a deadly reaction to a cholesterol lowering prescription, there are obviously always risks of side affects or allergic reactions when using drugs.

Obviously the unfortunate part is that in these cases the multiple problems have to arise first before the product is discontinued :\

I'm not trying to say you are wrong - poop happens, as they say.
I had a cat have a violent allergic reaction to a flea shampoo once and we thought she was going to die.

I just don't want individuals here to think they are doing something wrong or seriously putting their pets in danger by using these products (including Worm Away) which on the whole, are generally (statistically) relatively safe if used properly.

[Ian]

A lot of very mixed opinions here

My birds have shown no outward signs of ill health but depending on which article you read could sway your opinion

Maybe its best to check droppings ? are worms very visible in the droppings or can they be very hard to detect??

[Chris103]

The yorkie Lady: I know for a fact that she used the product properly. She actually used HALF the dose because she was afraid to use it. Also, that is one just one example of the numerous problems I witnessed with products like that.

I really think these are exceptions and not the rule, though, otherwise these products would have been discontinued a long time ago - like Zelnorm

Just like the 10% of the population that might have a deadly reaction to a cholesterol lowering prescription, there are obviously always risks of side affects or allergic reactions when using drugs.

Obviously the unfortunate part is that in these cases the multiple problems have to arise first before the product is discontinued :\

I'm not trying to say you are wrong - poop happens, as they say.
I had a cat have a violent allergic reaction to a flea shampoo once and we thought she was going to die.

I just don't want individuals here to think they are doing something wrong or seriously putting their pets in danger by using these products (including Worm Away) which on the whole, are generally (statistically) relatively safe if used properly.

Agreed, on all of the above. I use worming products and chemicals when I feel that I must. And I don't want people to think that they are putting their pets in danger when using certain products either. My biggest concern is just with OVER medicating, worming, vaccinating etc.....moderation is key in my opinion.

No harm done in any of this lol, you can never decipher a tone through text

[nixity]

Agreed

There is a big difference between worming birds once a year and worming them every other week lol

[mickp]

a moth problem, there's no such thing
its an excuse to buy some new birds.
my st helenas and firefinches love chasing & eating moths

[nixity]

My Goulds thought they were alien invaders determined to kill and eat them - they were terrified of them.

It was like plastic bags to horses.. their eyes would get all wide when one would fly into a cage..

[CandoAviary]

I have only one comment to make. Where do our wild realatives of the finches we keep go to get rid of thier worms?

They surely don't go to the vets or get online and order up some dewormer and have fed exed...... I think it must be natural... there are many natural foods that kill worms...diatoms in earth for one as Tiffany mentioned. Probably many plants or nuts also.

For my dogs, pumpkin seed or walnuts w/shells, garlic and broken eggshells. The first 2 ingredients can kill worms , the garlic is a natural antibiotic (to prevent any infection the worms may have caused), and the eggshells scrape the intestines...removing the dead worms attached to the walls of the intestines.
Interesting note...Foxes in the wild have been observed soaking in the water up to thier noses to drown fleas. They also will roll in mud so thick that they can barely carry the weight of it. Then they will sun themselves allowing the mud to dry in hard clumps. They then shake like returning from a bath and the mud balls go flying with ticks and dead undercoat with it. Wise little foxes they are.
Point is thier are natural remedies out there...just not as convienient and accessible as chemical wormers and sprays

[dfcauley]

just not as convienient and accessible as chemical wormers and sprays

I personally will go for the convenient wormers and sprays. I have have dogs for 40 years and never had one die from them or be unhealthy. And I sure don't want mine rolling in mud. They sleep in my bed.