OMG!

[lovemyfinch]

Oh my, you must be panicking at this point
I agree with Liz, if she passes you absolutely have to figure out what is going on.

[cindy]

Jr...question for you...up here about 3 hours north of you we are experiencing controlled burning of brush. I know Ft Myers and Lehigh acres when I lived there had terrible brush fires, is there anything like that in your area, are the birds still outside?

Usually the lawn companies use a jet spray of liquid...the chance of your birds being exposed to a toxin is slim unless they are right next to the area being sprayed. The smell would be well dispersed due to being outside.

If heaven forbid your female passes on, you need to put the body in the fridge/freezer, what your vet recommends or if during the vet hours, put it in a plastci bag and keep it cold. PM me and I will give you a list of avian specialist in Ft Myers and Cape Coral if yours is not available. They can send the body and tissue samples off to find out what happened. Keep us posted.

Have you looked in their nest for things like spiders, wasps, fire ants...I lost two birds yrs ago that were on a screened porch, a wasp got into their nest box, they must have been stung trying to get it away...

You just got new cages but may I ask what they were housed in prior and prior to that at the breeders home.

[Sally]

This is awful that it is still going on. I do hope your hen pulls thru, but if she doesn't, and you want to have a necropsy done, do not freeze the body. Freezing destroys the tissue for testing purposes. You want to refrigerate only, not freeze.

[L in Ontario]

How is your hen today, JR?

[Ursula]

This is so awful!! I just read the entire post.

Sorry, can't help... I just wanted to say how sorry I am for you JR, what a nightmare!

Could you possibly move all birds inside, if only temporary?

P.S.: Just noticed that this was going on over weeks, not just days... In that case, I'd rule out accidential poisoning from the neighbor's house spraying, unless he does that regularly. Has anybody access to the cage and could have done that on purpose? I know it sounds cruel but some people ARE plain cruel and/or nuts. I think I'd get the birds inside if at all possible.

[JRs Gouldians]

Unfortunately the hen passed later that evening at around 5pm. I still don't know what is going on. The thing that frustrates me is not the fact that I have lost 5 birds (although that is very saddening to me) but the fact that 4/5 birds were in different cages with other birds as well. And all the others seem to be fine. I would suspect that the causes of these deaths do have something to do with them being housed outside, as only the outside birds have been affected. Unfortunately I cannot bring them inside, the ones I currently have inside (in quarantine) will have to go outside this weekend as well. This is because my dad is not thrilled I have all the birds in the first place let alone INSIDE. If I wanted/want to get a necropsy on the most recent bird's death it's going to have to wait until Monday. I did put her in a Ziploc bag and in the fridge, but I'm not sure if a necropsy can be done 5-6 days after the bird has passed? If it can be I may make the trip to my vet and get this done and HOPEFULLY get an answer (is it wrong that I kind of don't want to know? You know maybe it was all my fault...) If any of you know how much time can pass before you wont have an accurate necropsy please let me know it would be much appreciated. Also I thank you guys for being such a help while I was/am going through this and also all of you input.

[L in Ontario]

I'm sorry you lost her too, JR. I still think a necropsy is very important even vital if only to know that you need to change something in the aviary or some action by yourself. No one will blame you - it's not something done on purpose and it may possibly be something unavoidable. At least with a necropsy you will know if there is anything you can do to avoid another losing another bird.

I'm sure someone will come online to let you know how long after passing away, a necropsy can still be done. Or call the vet and ask them.

[Mozelle]

OH JR... I'm so terribly sorry to hear this is continuing!
It still sounds like poisoning to me. The rodent poisons are very strong, and I suspect that even the tiniest amount would be deadly to a bird. Can you completely scrub out your aviary/flight? Perhaps enclose it, even temporarily in a fine mesh of some kind to ensure no passage of mice etc? And heaven forbid.. but it's true, there are sick sick people out there who will routinely poison. There's someone doing it to dogs in a town not far from me right now.
All my hopes are with you.....

[cindy]

Jr, can you tell us a little more about what your area, the yard, road traffic, ponds, type of water you give them...I know the area you mentioned you live at it is not far from my Dad's. Has there been any water main breaks? Gas leaks. Try to give us about as much information so we can try to help figure this out. how do you buy your seed/feed...open binds or bagged...did it get wet, how do you store it. Mycotoxins can also have deadly effects.

[6finchfriends]

I am so sorry JR It does sound like poison. The way it (rodent poison) works is the animal that ingests the poison bleeds to death inside. If they were coughing up blood, it sounds like rodent poison. I hope no one would deliberately poison your beautiful birds but you never know. I'm very sorry for your loss. I hope you have no more deaths!

[cindy]

Jr...I mentioned myctoxins because some scientists call it poisoning by natural causes, if ingested enough of it attacks the liver and other vital organs, it takes a while for it to accumulate and a while to get out their system. Some toxins are stored in the fat cells.

If it is something inhaled like a mold type spore it settles in the lungs and will cause inflammations, could even cause the lung to have a reaction/infection and could cause internal bleeding.

What do you use as a substrate on the floor of your cages, do you have potted plants that get moist in or near the cages? Sorry to ask but perhaps it is enviromental. If your cages are high up, on a screen porch I would guess mice can not get to them and bring poison in.

[JRs Gouldians]

Jr, can you tell us a little more about what your area, the yard, road traffic, ponds, type of water you give them...I know the area you mentioned you live at it is not far from my Dad's. Has there been any water main breaks? Gas leaks. Try to give us about as much information so we can try to help figure this out. how do you buy your seed/feed...open binds or bagged...did it get wet, how do you store it. Mycotoxins can also have deadly effects.

Ok, lets see. The birds are housed on our lanai on the back of our house. It's all screened in so not much gets in, sure a few lizards and ants and such but nothing like wasps, snakes or anything of that nature. The back yard is nothing special, its Florida so there are a few pine trees, there is a creek about 60 yards or so from the porch/lanai, but its been so long since I have gone over there sometimes there's water sometimes/usually its dried up or just muck. Traffic wise there is nothing big at all and what there is its in front of the house not the back. As far as I know there have been no water main breaks or gas leaks. They get their water from the tap, but it goes through the filter on the sink. Recently (2 days ago) there was a big fire down in the Cyprus park, and when the wind changed directions and headed towards us the whole town was hit with heavy smoke. On this day is when I found the hen puffed up, but the fire just started a few days ago and would not have caused the other birds deaths (although it could have been a contributing factor?) I buy half my seed at fairs usually in a 25lb. bag and then I also order different type online (usually from frisky finches) and mix the two together. I keep apple juice size jugs of it outside to feed the birds daily and all else is put in big Ziploc bags and refrigerated. All antibiotics are kept inside and its usually 68-75 degrees inside (dad likes it cold.) After writing all this I did just remember something that has happened recently but did not even think about it and am not sure if it has anything to do with our water. But about a month ago I guess the county was watching the water output in our neighborhood or something. Any who, they did install 2 pipe looking things one in our yard and one in our neighbors yard. I have no idea what they do... Maybe I should go look at them and see if I can find anything. I'd hate to go and see if water is going through them and they have a toxic metal or something. I think that's about it any more questions and I'll gladly try to answer them.

[6finchfriends]

Well, doesn't sound like rodent poison. I hope no more of your birds get sick. do they all seem fine now? I truly hope it's over and no more become ill!

[JRs Gouldians]

Well, doesn't sound like rodent poison. I hope no more of your birds get sick. do they all seem fine now? I truly hope it's over and no more become ill!

That's the thing one day they look in perfect health, the next day BAM! puffed up and if you go to move them it stresses/startles them and then once you have them they are coughing up blood and gone. One of the earlier deaths the male was courting to a female and the next day puffed up I went to move him and gone in my hands. This hen was fine the past few weeks laid 5 perfectly normal eggs was sitting for 4 days then came home and found her outside puffed up and BAM died later that evening... I just don't get it.

[cindy]

What I would do is call the water company, ask about the pipe installed, ask about the water watch. It might have been a contaminant that they warned residents of but might not be so good for the birds...you can also take a sample of the water from the tap you give them water from...they should test it for free. Perhaps there was something that got into the water system that their little bodies just could not deal with such as a bacterial...the blood could be in the digestive tract or it could have been a protozo of some sort. Mind you the test could come back negative if this was a few weeks ago. My suggestion is to get the birds body autopsied, if it was chemical or bacteria or protozo it might possibly show up in tissue and fat cells.