Had a prob, cleared up, but How may have this happened?

[cindy]

Bacteria and diseases can be transfered easily. I'll use this as an example:

I spoke with my vet about PBFD (My Gray came from a breeder that knew she had issues but never told the buyers...long, sad story).

My avian vet told me that they did an experiment...before a show they did a swab of door knobs, walls, table tops, peoples' clothing....after the bird show they did a swabbing of the same places/clothes. PBFD was not in the areas swabbed prior to the show but present after the show in every single spot they swabbed including walls, table tops, peoples' hair. This particuliar disease is spread through parrot dander, salivia from the birds, droppings wet and dried, blood. If the dropping dry and are disturbed the disease becomes airborne and can be transferred to shoes, clothing etc. Even a feather can contain the disease since it carries the dander of the bird. Even dander surrounding the nails...you can literally transfer it by going to a pet store that rims bird nails without properly cleaning the tools before going to trim someone else's hookbill. Scary huh?

Say you go to pet a parrot that is shedding the disease, it may not show any symptoms but is a carrier. PBFD is transferrable through dander...ok so you pet this parrot and then go pet another parrot at another breeder's table and it licks or mouths your fingers....you have just possibly infected the second bird unknowingly. Depending on the age of the bird very young birds, babies are most vulnerable to the disease.

another example:
Say a breeder buys baby parrots from multiple breeders to handfeed out, unknowingly two of the babies are infected with PBFD, possibly from their parents which are carrier not showing the signs and symptoms of the disease. Instead of the breeder keeping all the babies separate that are from different breeders and using separate feeding syringes or spoons she decides to feed and keep all the babies together. Sharing of feeding tools, mouthing each other's beak, picking up others droppings in the brooder potentially exposes the other babies to the disease the two birds are carrying.

Taking precautions like when getting new birds, quarantining them, treating with preventivies, going to feed and clean your new birds last after taking care of established stock first, keeping new birds from different breeders separate during quarantine, after going to a show (especially if you own a hookbill) and showering and changing your clothes is very important before going near your own birds. Leave your shoes that you wore to someone elses aviary or to a show outside, spray them, even the bottoms with Lysol....you can even track disease into your home.

Granted finches don't get a lot of the same diseases hookbills can get but I always rule on better safe than sorry. I know of to many cases of people buying a parrot, finches or even a canary from a breeder/seller (not knowing the breeder at all) that do not quarantine and put the new birds immediately in with established stock only to have illness suddenly show up in their flock days to weeks later.

So yes you are very wise to change your clothes, wash hands, quarantine, take precautions....after all these little birds are in our care.

[cindy]

Regardess of it being one bird or two different birds something is causing one bird to have a dirty bottom and the symptoms you stated, the other is passing undigested seed...if they have something that can be potentially passed it needs to be addressed, if you free flight them it could be passed by droppings, through food, water to others in your flock...something is making both birds symptomatic and it is concerning.

[cindy]

any bird can pick up coccidia by ingesting water and food that has been pooped in by a sick bird that has it, they can even get it from pecking the bottom of the cage if it has droppings on it.

It is good you are calling ladygouldian...she can tell you exactly how to treat the issue with the two birds.

@ Corkysgirl, Careful with this, Because it seems cindy got confused and thought the symptoms were belonging to 1 bird not 2 different birds.
I'd hate to think it was Me T-T' these guys of mine are all hand tamed, and are handled, Their my Babies T-T', and I always wash my hands before handling.

http://www.finchforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=16077
http://www.finchforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=16000
http://www.finchforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=14722

Here are some topics about them being tame T-T'

Erica...it is pretty clear early on in this thread/topic before your post about confusion...I knew it was about two different birds...hope you resolve this issue and your birds both get better. So much for trying to help someone.

[Corkysgirl]

I'm not sure what you meant...the be careful part. I had a bad head injury and sometimes don't make things clear...use the right words, butt in when I shouldn't. Maybe I wrote something that was misunderstood, or did one of the above. I wasn't in any way insinuating you did anything unclean. I was curious, if newspapers as a whole can pass germs because they go through so many hands, just like money. Then told the story about my in laws because of the second hand newspapers...which is where my "head injury" not necessary story sometimes comes in. Not sure what you mean about the one bird not two different birds. Sorry for butting in.

[birdeatcat]

@corkysgirl
It's okay, oh sorry to hear about your head injury, you weren't butting in at all, He who asks a question is a fool for 5 minutes, he who never asks is a fool forever. XD. Go ahead Corky's girl ask away, anything.
When I said be careful, it's because everyone thinks snow flake has the butt issue and undigested seed. She JUST HAS AN ICKY BUTT.

And @Cindy, How Many times do I have to say this, They ARE NOT pooping Seed anymore =-=' It's cleared up.

I wrote Lady Gouldian finch.com, and told them Every little detail there is, so Not sure what they'll say, hoping they'll answer soon

Snowy's feeling better 100%, she's a Stubborn bird that wasn't drinking her medicine, so that is why she was taking longer than anticipated.
So I gave her water without anything in it to rehydrate her, and I will be administering the last of her medicine by syringe today, because She is SOO STUBBORN!

Anyone able to tell me how to get her to bathe, ?
The societies she used to live with must have scared her, by them getting extremely excited in the tub, and they are Ridiculous, really they get water Everywhere!!

[cindy]

You do not have to repeat yourself anymore...but something was making them poop seed, undigested seed passing means something in the birds system was causing them not to absorb any nutrition and so the seed passed whole. Perhaps it is indeed gone or perhaps it will come back...in any case the other one always has a messy bottom, why is that? As far as preventing it from happening again reread what I wrote and the articles I refered to it could be parasites, an infection, a combinations of things.

If you did not want others help why did you post...I am done.

[birdeatcat]

@-@' well it answers the question that there maybe no preventative measures, and I read the article and I got dizzy with the thought of no 100% preventative way...

I'll wait to see what lady gouldian finch says, And I never said I didn't want any help, but this is really confusing as to what's happening, and I just wanted things to be acknowledged what I have been saying, and yea, Snowy is extremely frustrating, and I am highly overwhelmed with this situation.

If it may clear this up with everyone why I am so over whelmed, these birds are Family to me, and I don't want things to go wrong, though they will no matter what.

there is no need to get ticked cause I am overwhelmed, and scared.

[cindy]

Being overwhelmed and concerned is understandable, I spent a good portion of the evening trying to help you through it...I just did not appreciate your comments directed towards me being confused, not repeating yourself over and over...like I said something caused it, as far as preventing it from happening again there are several possibilities and that needs to be looked into.

Good luck hope they respond to you soon.

[birdeatcat]

I'll keep everyone posted. any Idea's on the bathing problem?

[L in Ontario]

I have no idea on how to get a finch to bathe if the others can't teach her - not much you can do, I don't think. I would be interested to hear what ladygouldian has to say in response to your inquiry. Best wishes.

[debbie276]

I also would like to know what Larraine recommends.
Best of luck

[birdeatcat]

I was researching home remedies for internal parasites, and it seems Cocci, a home remedy is apple cider vinegar. I am not discounting the meds, I just want something for the mean time till Monday comes, they package comes in the mail, ETC.

I think that I have narrowed down this issue to Cocci and Snowflake is the one who started it.
But I am not going to ignore what ladygouldianfinch.com says.
If it's what I just said, I won't be so overwhelmed and I will be able to clean up my flock once and for good.

[cindy]

If it is coccidia, coccicare will not cure Snowflake, coccicare is a preventative which can be used on the flock. Ladygouldian may recommend Trimethaprim/Sulfa 20% for snowflake.
http://www.ladygouldianfinch.com/product_ts.php

I would not fool with to much in the way of medications and home remedy treatments until you speak to her. I would ask her about the acv before giving it to the bird, if she has loose runny stools you want her to drink but she may not like the acv. See what they say before doing anything else.

[Corkysgirl]

It's so refreshing to see people really care for their birds. I've seen some really neglectful situations in the past. I even hesitate to part with any of my birds because I can't be sure the homes they go to will take good care of them. I just came from the "farm" where the turkeys and chickens were just killed. Had to walk through blood. Talk about change your clothes and take precautions. I practically bathed in bleach and did all you mentioned, even spraying the bottom of my shoes. I so don't want to bring anything in from the outside to my birds. Thank God they have a separate room! I'm learning so much. Sorry your bird is sick and I know the frustration. Our birds have no idea what good hands they are in, and it's a good thing. We do the best we can and that's all we can do. Hope she/he...sorry, can't remember, gets well and they all stay that way. ladygouldian...Larraine is great!

[Diamond Sparrow]

If you want societies to bath put a dish of water in their cage they love it.
Ensure your birds are getting the correct diet .Give them plenty of grit ,fresh vegies etc..
Once a week I add Apple Cider Vinegar (ACV) to the water as a cleansing agent .
The recommended dose rate is 5-10mls per litre make sure you get the non-pasteurised ACV
Give them 'Charcoal it is a natural bowel astringent, actually absorbing many toxins from the bird's system, in the process contributing to health
I have painteds that charcoal in their nest to help absorb any moisture that may be in the nest.
How fresh is the seed you are using ?
If you are giving them fresh vegies ensure what is not eaten is removed at the end of the day